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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 02.01.2025 um 12:02 schrieb Mira
Ariel:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AS2PR02MB10103396F6FFD262A0E4214AED0142@AS2PR02MB10103.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="elementToProof">first, a request for conceptual
clarification. You seem to be contrasting 'some' as a scalar
quantifier to 'some' as a determiner. Is the latter the same as
an indefinite pronoun?</p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Both
can be pronominal, and my question doesn't care about this
distinction:</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Determiner:
A: Would you like to buy
<b>some</b> apples?</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B:
Yes, can I have
<b>some</b>?</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Scalar
Quan: A: Would you like all the apples?</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B1:
I'd like
<b>some</b> of them.</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B2:
</span><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">I'd
like
<b>some</b>.</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">The
main (almost absolute difference) is stress. Scalar quantifier
is overwhelmingly stressed, determiner <i>some </i>isn't.
Also, scalar quantifier favors subject (or topic position),
while determiner
<i>some </i>favors direct object position (data based on
Santa Barbara Corpus, cited in a paper recently submitted).</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Semantically/pragmatically:
scalar quantifier
<i>some</i> profiles an upper-bounded quantity ('less than
all'). Determiner <i>some
</i>is oblivious to this question.</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(88, 237, 222);"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(88, 237, 222);"> </span></p>
<p class="elementToProof">Now, the standard German forms for the
quantifier are <i>
einige</i> and <i>etliche</i>. The etymological dictionary of
German (<a href="https://www.dwds.de/d/wb-etymwb"
id="OWA6cfddb9c-6724-c938-5c9d-c33ed72a413e"
class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink moz-txt-link-freetext"
data-auth="NotApplicable"
style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.dwds.de/d/wb-etymwb</a>)
categorizes both as indefinite pronouns. </p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Would
you use these forms in the counterpart of the scalar
quantifier examples above? In both?</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(88, 237, 222);"><br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Translating your examples:</p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Determiner:
A: Möchten Sie Äpfel kaufen?<br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B:
Ja; kann ich welche haben?<br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Scalar
Quan: A: Möchten Sie alle Äpfel haben?<br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B1:
Ich möchte ein paar davon.<br>
</span></p>
<p class="elementToProof"><span style="color: rgb(179, 106, 226);"> B2:
</span><span
style="font-family: Aptos, Aptos_EmbeddedFont, Aptos_MSFontService, Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(179, 106, 226);">Ich
möchte ein paar.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>My Sprachgefühl tells me that <i>einige</i> is possible in B1
and B2, but not idiomatic. This may be related to the
human/animate/inanimate distinction: <i>einige</i> would be
unproblematic if the question were</p>
<p>A: Kennen Sie alle Kollegen? 'Do you know all the colleagues?'<br>
</p>
<p>B: Ich kenne einige (von ihnen). 'I know some (of them).'<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Here, again, <i>ein paar</i> would be equally possible; and
maybe some speakers would feel that <i>ein paar</i> are less than
<i>einige</i>.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
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