<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:10pt;color:#000000;font-family:Tahoma,Geneva,sans-serif;" dir="ltr">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Dear Jeanette, Jutta and all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">To add to Jutta's information on Finnish: While the negative polarity clitic certainly conveys the
Remind-Me function, Finnish also makes use of <i>taas</i> 'again', and not only that, but also
<i>nyt</i> 'now', and surprisingly enough, all these seem to be able to co-occur with each other, although only one of the three is really needed:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Mikä sun nimi olikaan?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi nyt oli?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi taas oli?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi nyt olikaan?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi taas olikaan?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi nyt taas oli?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">≈ Mikä sun nimi nyt taas olikaan?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">'What was your name again?'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">(Cf. <i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Mikä
sun nimi oli?</span></i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> 'What was your name'? without an obvious Remind-Me function.)</span><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"></span></i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">There surely must be some differences in the use and acceptance of these seven alternatives, but to
me they still mean about the same. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">As regards
<i>nyt</i> 'now' – a semantic source of Remind-Me particles apparently not mentioned yet – I can also add that its Estonian cognate
<i>nüüd</i> 'now' can be used in a similar way, with or without the clitic -<i>gi</i>:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Mis su nimi nüüd oli(gi)?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">'What was your name again?'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Estonian speakers know more about this, but similar use of 'now' and a multi-purpose clitic
<i>ge</i> is also found in Saami languages north of Finnish, e.g. North Saami:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><i><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Mii du namma dal lei ge?</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">what your name now was
<i>ge</i></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">'What was your name again?'</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Best regards,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI">Jussi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:115%"><span lang="FI" style="font-size:
10.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;mso-ansi-language:FI"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<br>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>Frá:</b> Salminen, Jutta via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> mánudagur, 31. mars 2025 19:41<br>
<b>Til:</b> Jeanne Lecavelier des Etangs-Levallois; lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Efni:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] Remind-Me particles across languages</font>
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
</div>
</div>
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
Dear Jeanne,
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<br>
</div>
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
I think no one mentioned Finnish yet: <br>
In Finnish a typical way to express this Remind-Me function is a combination of simple past tense and the negative polarity clitic particle
<i>-kAAn </i>‘(not) even, (n)either’ attached to the verb., e.g.</div>
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<i><span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">Mikä sun nimi oli-kaan?</span></i><span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
what you.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">gen</span> name be.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">3sg</span>.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">pst</span>-<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">cl</span>
(<i>sun</i>, a colloquial form for ‘your,’ cf. Standard Finnish <i>sinu-n </i>you-<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">gen</span>)</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">‘What was your name, again?’</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">As a clitic particle, the NPI
<i>-kAAn – </i>as well as its positive polarity counterpart, the focus particle <i>
-kin </i>‘also, even’ – can be attached both to nouns (basically meaning ‘even, either’ e.g.
<i>minä-kään en tiedä </i><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">1sg</span>-<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">cl</span>
<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
neg</span>.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">1sg</span> know.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">cng</span><i>
</i>‘even I don’t know / I don’t know, either) and to verbs with further pragmatic meanings, such as counter-expectation:</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<i><span lang="FI" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">Se ei ollut-kaan Anna.</span></i><span lang="FI" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
it <span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
neg.3sg</span> be.<span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">ptcp-cl</span> A.</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">’It wasn’t Anna (counter to what I thought/expected).’</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">For other combinations and meanings, see Vilkuna 2015.</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="SV-FI" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><font size="1">Vilkuna, Maria 2015: Negation in Finnish.
</font></span><span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><font size="1">In M. Miestamo, A. Tamm & B. Wagner-Nagy (eds.), Negation in Uralic Languages,
457–485. Typological Studies in Language 108. Amsterdam: John Benjamins.</font><span style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"></span></span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"> </span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">I hope this helps you further!</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">Best,</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">Jutta</span></p>
<p style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<span lang="EN-US" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;"><br>
</span></p>
</div>
<div style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
<div id="EmailSignature" style="background-color: white; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-weight: normal; line-height: 21px;">
_________________<br>
Dr. Jutta Salminen<br>
Postdoktorand / postdoc-tutkija, FT<br>
Lektorin für Finnisch / suomen lehtori<br>
<br>
Institut für Fennistik und Skandinavistik<br>
Ernst-Lohmeyer-Platz 3<br>
17489 Greifswald<br>
<a class="normal-link" href="mailto:jutta.salminen@uni-greifswald.de">jutta.salminen@uni-greifswald.de</a><br>
Tel.: +49 (0)3834 420 3601<br>
<br>
www.uni-greifswald.de/fennistik</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Am Montag, den 31-03-2025 um 11:59 schrieb Jeanne Lecavelier des Etangs-Levallois via Lingtyp:<br>
<blockquote style="border:0; border-left:2px solid #22437f; padding:0px; margin:0px; padding-left:5px; margin-left:5px">
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I am currently looking at Remind-Me particles (particles which express <br>
that the speaker is asking for an information they used to know but forgot, <br>
like English "again" in "What's your name again?") across languages. <br>
Specifically, I am interested in Remind-Me particles (i) which have another <br>
(canonical) meaning when used in other contexts, and (ii) whose <br>
other/canonical meaning is not "again".<br>
<br>
For instance, French Remind-Me particle is "déjà" ("already"): "Comment tu <br>
t'appelles toi déjà ?" (literally "What's your name already?") is <br>
interpreted as "What's your name again? (I forgot)".<br>
<br>
If you know of any such particle (which can have a Remind-Me use, and which <br>
does not mean "again") in your native language or the language(s) you're <br>
working on, please write to me :-)<br>
<br>
Many thanks for your help!<br>
Best,<br>
Jeanne Lecavelier<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a class="normal-link" href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" class="normal-link">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>