<div dir="ltr">Dear All, Dear Ljuba,<div><br></div><div>Your observation about Bulgarian makes the functions of the imperfect even more interesting, because it is precisely only this fossilised form of one verb (biti 'be'), at most two verbs (zvati se 'be called') that remain, whereas the rest has been entirely replaced by the analytic past of imperfective verbs.</div><div><br></div><div>With regards to the Russian examples I suppose the counterpart of <i>govorite </i>can also be used in BCMS, but I would expect it in a different context. I'd say in (1) and (2) from my previous email, the speaker indicates that this information used to be part of their memory. This is not necessarily the case in (3), where the present tense <i>kažeš/kažete</i> "you (sg/pl) say" can be used either as a reaction to what the interlocutor has just said or as a remind-me-particle regarding the information that was shared very recently, e.g. during that very same conversation, and not as something that the speaker used to know from before. </div><div><br></div><div>(3) <i>Kako kažeš da se zvao?</i></div><div> how say.PRS.2SG COMP REFL.ACC <a href="http://be_called.IPFV.PST.M.SG">be_called.IPFV.PST.M.SG</a><br> "What do you say he was called?"</div><div><br>Best,</div><div>Stefan<br><br></div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 at 13:19, Timur Maisak <<a href="mailto:timur.maisak@gmail.com">timur.maisak@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Dear all,<div>in Russian, there is a cognate particle <i>бишь</i> (<i>biš'</i>), which is a bit archaic.</div><div>Here's <a href="https://russkayarech.ru/ru/archive/2024-1/60-69" target="_blank">a recent paper</a> about its origin (from the verb 'to be'). See also <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%8C" target="_blank">https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/бишь</a></div><div><br></div><div>Ian's Wiktionary link gives <i>govorite </i>'say.PRS.2PL'<i> </i>for Russian, probably what the compilers meant are constructions like the following:</div><div><i>Kak, ty govoriš', tebja zovut?</i> / <i>Kak, vy govorite, vas zovut?</i></div><div>'What, you (sg, informal) say, is your name?' / 'What, you (pl or sg.formal) say, is your name (or: are your names)?'</div><div>= 'What's your name(s) again?'</div><div><br></div><div>One can also say</div><div><i>Kak biš' tebja zovut?</i><br></div><div><div>= 'What's your name again?'</div><div><br></div></div><div>Best,</div><div>Timur Maisak</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">пн, 31 мар. 2025 г. в 13:51, Stefan Savić via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
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<div dir="auto">Dear Ms Lecavelier,</div>
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<div dir="auto">Interesting question. In BCMS (Bosnian-Croatian-Mobtenevrin-Serbian) an element with this function is the 3SG imperfect of the verb 'be', i.e. <i>beše </i>in Ekavian and <i>biješe </i>in Jekavian dialects (apologies in advance if I have omitted another form from other dialects). </div>
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<div dir="auto">It's important to note that in most dialects the analytic past (be + l-participle) functions as the only general/unmarked past, whereas the synthetic forms, the aorist and the imperfect, are stylistically marked and exhibit a very limited use. It is not an exaggeration to say that for speakers of most dialects the imperfect is not a productive part of the verb paradigm (most speakers learn it only in school, many seem to be unsure about the conjugation and it often gets confused with the aorist). Its obsolescence may explain why in a sentence like (1) <i>beše</i> co-occurs in the same sentence as another finite verb (the auxiliary that carries the finiteness of <i>zvao se</i> is ellided when it co-occurs with the reflexive pronoun <i>se</i>) as if it was a particle, implying it is a so-called remind-me-particle rather than a finite verb. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div>(1) <i>Kako se beše zvao</i>?</div><div> how REFL.ACC beše <a href="http://be_called.IPFV.PST.M.SG" target="_blank">be_called.IPFV.PST.M.SG</a></div><div><i> </i>"What was his name again?"</div><div> </div><div>My grandparents (born in 1920's and 1930's) who used the aorist (not the imperfect) more frequently that my parents' generation used another variant, which I find would be marked for speakers of my generation (born in 1980's):</div><div><br></div><div>(2) <i>Kako se zvaše</i>?</div><div> how REFL.ACC be_called.IPFV.IMPF.3SG</div><div> "What was her/his name again?"</div><br><div>Best,</div><div>Stefan</div>
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<div id="m_-4895056762661590486m_901094810563654006m_-4979909701790546588m_-4633181276879572950divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Jeanne Lecavelier des Etangs-Levallois via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 31, 2025 11:59:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lingtyp] Remind-Me particles across languages</font>
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<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
I am currently looking at Remind-Me particles (particles which express <br>
that the speaker is asking for an information they used to know but forgot, <br>
like English "again" in "What's your name again?") across languages. <br>
Specifically, I am interested in Remind-Me particles (i) which have another <br>
(canonical) meaning when used in other contexts, and (ii) whose <br>
other/canonical meaning is not "again".<br>
<br>
For instance, French Remind-Me particle is "déjà" ("already"): "Comment tu <br>
t'appelles toi déjà ?" (literally "What's your name already?") is <br>
interpreted as "What's your name again? (I forgot)".<br>
<br>
If you know of any such particle (which can have a Remind-Me use, and which <br>
does not mean "again") in your native language or the language(s) you're <br>
working on, please write to me :-)<br>
<br>
Many thanks for your help!<br>
Best,<br>
Jeanne Lecavelier<br>
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