<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"><!-- P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} --></style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:11pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols">
<p>Dear Patrick, dear all, </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I agree that it is useful to question our activities, and that it must be done constructively. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>One first question I'd have for you Patrick (and others as well): are your criticisms addressed to linguistics specifically, or would they also apply to other scientific disciplines? Social sciences and humanities? Hard sciences? </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Cheers and thanks for the debate, Maïa </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div id="Signature">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Maïa Ponsonnet</span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Chargée de Recherche HDR @ CNRS </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Dynamique
Du Langage</span></p>
<p style=""><span style="font-size:10.6667px"></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">14, avenue Berthelot, 69007 Lyon, FRANCE -- </span><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">+33
4 72 72 65 46</span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Adjunct @ University of Western Australia</span><br>
</p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">+ + + + <span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:10.6667px">+</span></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt"></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Co-rédactrice en chef du <i>Journal de la Société des Océanistes</i></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt"><a href="https://journals.openedition.org/jso/" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPNoLP" style="">https://journals.openedition.org/jso/</a><br>
</span></p>
<div><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt"><i><span id="ms-rterangepaste-start"></span></i>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt">Membre du Comité d'Ethique de la Recherche, Université de Lyon</span></p>
<p style="font-style:italic; font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">
<span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt"><a href="https://www.universite-lyon.fr/recherche/comite-d-ethique-de-la-recherche/comite-d-ethique-de-la-recherche-245561.kjsp" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPNoLP"></a></span></p>
<a href="https://tinyurl.com/cerunivdelyon" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPNoLP">https://tinyurl.com/cerunivdelyon</a>
<div style="font-style:italic"><br>
</div>
<i><span id="ms-rterangepaste-end"></span></i><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<p></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><br>
</p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri Light","Helvetica Light",sans-serif; font-size:8pt"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De :</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> de la part de Patrik Austin via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Envoyé :</b> mardi 1 avril 2025 09:51<br>
<b>À :</b> lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Objet :</b> Re: [Lingtyp] A plea for productive & respectful rhetoric</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt; line-height:107%; font-size:11pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">
Yes, let us discuss it constructively. What is the problem in linguistics that led to broken research, in your opinion?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt; line-height:107%; font-size:11pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 8pt; line-height:107%; font-size:11pt; font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">
Am 31/03/2025 00:07, schrieb Adam Singerman via Lingtyp:<br>
> I am writing in response to Patrik Austin's message to LingTyp from<br>
> Tuesday, March 25th, in which several different research traditions<br>
> were disparaged using rhetoric that is at best simply not collegial<br>
> and at worst counterproductive to our collective efforts as linguists.<br>
> Patrik's message contained several comments which I think need to be<br>
> called out, since if we allow this kind of rhetoric to take hold on<br>
> LingTyp (or in our scholarly spaces in general) we will be unable to<br>
> make progress towards our overall goal as linguists, which is to<br>
> understand individual languages as well as capitalized Language in all<br>
> its richness and complexity.<br>
><br>
> I should say at the outset that I have been trained primarily in<br>
> formal analysis & theory (generative syntax, generative phonology,<br>
> Distributed Morphology) and while I agree with many of the goals of<br>
> formal analysis & theory, I often find diachronic explanations for<br>
> synchronic patterns to be more convincing and satisfying than<br>
> formalist ones. (I enjoy teaching historical linguistics much more<br>
> than I enjoy teaching syntactic analysis, for example.) So please do<br>
> not think that I am writing this message because I am a practicioner<br>
> of any particular formalist school of thought. On the contrary, I<br>
> think that we ned to approach questions from different angles using<br>
> the analytic tools provided by different schools of thought.<br>
><br>
> Here are two comments from Patrik's message which bothered me:<br>
> (1) "A summary shows that syntactic typology is BS, to put it politely"<br>
> (2) "Figure 3... shows how not just syntactic typology but also<br>
> Generative Grammar is BS, which everyone of course always knew"<br>
><br>
> Both "syntactic typology" and "Generative Grammar" are *scientific<br>
> research programs* in the sense of Lakatos. Hundreds if not thousands<br>
> of linguists have made contributions to each of these research<br>
> programs over the course of many, many decades, and some linguists<br>
> have worked in both of these programs. In my experience the best<br>
> linguists are ones who recognize that we will need formal AND<br>
> functional explanations; it is an open question whether a given<br>
> phenomenon is best explained formally or functionally, which is where<br>
> a lot of the most interesting debate happens. Now, it is definitely<br>
> the case that many individual *hypotheses* that have been formulated<br>
> within the research program known as syntactic typology, just as it is<br>
> surely the case that many individual *hypotheses* formulated within<br>
> the research program of formal analysis/theory ("Generative Grammar")<br>
> are false. This is how science progresses: hypotheses are formulated,<br>
> are tested, and are falsified, and we discard the falsified ones. But<br>
> to say that all of syntactic typology and all of Generative Grammar<br>
> are BS is far too coarse and far too negative a judgment. Both of<br>
> these research programs contain valuable insights, and to call them<br>
> both bull**** is to throw out the baby with the bathwater.<br>
><br>
> Finally, I want to respond to the following comment:<br>
> (3) "linguistics is a farce, a status game, a broken system, and<br>
> people doing it are hostages to the system with little will of their<br>
> own. It is a sad, pathetic world, and no one can fix it because all<br>
> participants are economically and emotionally tied to it."<br>
><br>
> Once we make this kind of assertion, which disparages not only the<br>
> research being done but also the people who do the research, we leave<br>
> the territory of collegial, civil scientific discourse and enter a<br>
> world of ad hominem attacks.<br>
><br>
> I do think it is fair for someone to say that, in their opinion, too<br>
> many resources (jobs, grants, PhD scholarships, publications in top<br>
> journals, etc) have been devoted to a particular school of linguistics<br>
> over another, and that our entire field would do better if there were<br>
> to be more balance between the subfields. (For example, I think that<br>
> more departments in the US should have historical linguists on<br>
> faculty, and I think that all graduate students being trained in<br>
> synchronic phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, etc should have<br>
> to take at least one semester of historical linguistics, too.) But to<br>
> say that our entire field is "a farce, a status game, a broken system"<br>
> ? and that all the researchers who work within this field are<br>
> "hostages" who lack free will ? is not respectful or productive.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Adam<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Lingtyp mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(70,120,134)">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
> <a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" target="_blank" style="color:rgb(70,120,134)">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a></p>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>