<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
Dear Ilana,</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
"The nation of Australia is predicated on these ideas and so we can say that Australia (as a national idea) is a ‘Western’ society, even if the population comes from all over the planet."</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
How is the Australian nation based on Christianity when it has no state religion?</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
If by European intellectual traditions you mean those like democracy, laicism, or capitalism, aren't most modern states founded based on those ideas, including Japan or South Korea?</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
Regards,</div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 14.666667px; color: rgb(33, 33, 33);">
Ian</div>
<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
朱 易安 <br>
JOO, IAN <br>
准教授 <br>
Associate Professor <br>
小樽商科大学 <br>
Otaru University of Commerce</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" style="text-align: left; text-indent: 0px; font-family: ArialMT; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">🌐 <a href="http://ianjoo.github.io/">
ianjoo.github.io</a><br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</span></div>
</div>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container" class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message">
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<hr style="display: inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>보낸 사람:</b> Ilana Mushin <i.mushin@uq.edu.au><br>
<b>보낸 날짜:</b> 금요일, 5월 30, 2025 11:49 오전<br>
<b>받는 사람:</b> Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu>; JOO Ian <joo@res.otaru-uc.ac.jp>; Lingtyp Linguistics Typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>제목:</b> Re: Two terminological quandaries for the price of one: 'traditional' and 'non-Western' cultures</span>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </div>
</div>
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">I think ‘Western’ for me is less about hemisphere and more about intellectual traditions – those that emerged from Western Europe and especially the Western European branch of Christianity (Catholicism, followed by Protestantism).
The nation of Australia is predicated on these ideas and so we can say that Australia (as a national idea) is a ‘Western’ society, even if the population comes from all over the planet. ‘Traditional’ in the Australian context tends to apply to Indigenous cultures
when talking about cultural practices (including language) that pre-date colonisation; and for non-Indigenous culture when talking about cultural practices that pre-date immigration.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">-- </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Ilana Mushin FAHA</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Professor of Linguistics,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">School of Languages and Cultures</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Deputy Associate Dean (Research),</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Faculty of Humanities, Arts and Social Sciences.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">University of Queensland</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">St Lucia, QLD 4072</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">Ph: (07) 3365 6810</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;">CRICOS Provider No: 00025B</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div style="padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>From: </b>Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Juergen Bohnemeyer via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 30 May 2025 at 12:38</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>JOO Ian <joo@res.otaru-uc.ac.jp>, Lingtyp Linguistics Typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Two terminological quandaries for the price of one: 'traditional' and 'non-Western' cultures</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Dear Ian – I doubt Americans, Australians, Brazilians, etc., would appreciate being called ‘European’, yet their majority cultures/societies are ‘Western’ (i.e., of European descent).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">That was the easier of your two questions. The first one is trickier. I agree with you in principle that it would be appropriate to extend the concept of indigeneity to any communities that aren’t colonial
or descendant from colonizers. The problem is that the descent part of that definition requires some sort of temporal horizon, or some other framing perspective. Bantu people colonized much of Sub-Saharan Africa, Tupians large swaths of the Amazon. Do we therefore
treat Bantu and Tupian cultures as non-indigenous? I think it depends on the context – there is likely no universally valid definition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Best – Juergen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(0, 120, 212);"><u><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" style="color: rgb(0, 120, 212); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">jb77@buffalo.edu</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"><u><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">-- </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div style="padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>From: </b>Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of JOO Ian via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, May 29, 2025 at 22:23<br>
<b>To: </b>Lingtyp Linguistics Typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] Two terminological quandaries for the price of one: 'traditional' and 'non-Western' cultures</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Dear Juergen,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">By ‘indigenous’, I mean pragmatically that the presence of the community in the area they inhabit is not an immediate result of European colonization.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Why <b>European</b> colonization specifically, and not colonization by other forces (such as the Han colonization of Taiwan)?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">‘(Non-)Western cultures/societies’: By this I mean any cultures/societies of (non-)European origin/descent.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Why not just call them European?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">From Otaru,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Ian</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br>
</span><span style="font-family: "MS Gothic"; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">朱 易安</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> <br>
JOO, IAN <br>
</span><span style="font-family: "MS Gothic"; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">准教授</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> <br>
Associate Professor <br>
</span><span style="font-family: "MS Gothic"; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">小樽商科大学</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> <br>
Otaru University of Commerce</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Apple Color Emoji"; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">🌐</span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(113, 79, 188);"><u><a href="http://ianjoo.github.io/" style="color: rgb(113, 79, 188); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">ianjoo.github.io</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><br>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 36pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<div id="mail-editor-reference-message-container">
<div style="padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm; border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentcolor currentcolor;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt 76.05pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>보낸</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>
</b></span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>사람</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>:
</b>Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org></span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">이</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">(</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">가</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">)
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">다음</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">사람</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">대신</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">보냄</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">: Juergen Bohnemeyer via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>날짜</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>:
</b></span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">금요일</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;">, 2025</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">년</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> 5</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">월</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> 30</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">일</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> 11:01<br>
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>받는</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>
</b></span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>사람</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>:
</b>Lingtyp Linguistics Typology <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
</span><span style="font-family: "Malgun Gothic", sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>주제</b></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><b>:
</b>[Lingtyp] Two terminological quandaries for the price of one: 'traditional' and 'non-Western' cultures</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Dear all – I really need your help with this! I’ve been struggling for quite some time now with the terms ‘traditional culture/society’ and ‘(non-)Western culture/society’. Both concepts play significant
roles in my work, but both labels seem problematic. I’m looking for better alternatives. (If you want to call this query an exercise in political correctness, I would plead guilty to the charge. I do try to avoid offending people unintentionally.)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Let me briefly try to explicate the concepts that I have been using these labels for:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">‘Traditional cultures/societies’: Small-scale indigenous communities practicing predominantly non-industrial (or pre-industrial) modes of production in non-urban settings. By ‘small-scale’, I mean that
stratification is predominantly in terms of age and gender, division of labor is low, and offices of power are largely non-hereditary. By ‘indigenous’, I mean pragmatically that the presence of the community in the area they inhabit is not an immediate result
of European colonization. And the concept needs to be flexible enough to allow for the fact that the overwhelming majority of such communities are part of larger majority societies, are in more or less intensive contact with them, are under pressure by them,
etc.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">I suspect that objections to the label ‘traditional’ may be the result of associating that label with Social Darwinism. At the same time, I find the label acceptable to the extent that one accepts that
modes of production, while not following a strict developmental sequence, are not distributed randomly throughout human history either, particularly in the sense that industrialization did not take place prior to the Industrial Revolution. So what I’m looking
for is a label that occupies the sweet spot between Social Darwinism and completely ahistoric and non-evolutionary perspectives of social organization.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">The sexiest currently available alternative to ‘traditional’ is ‘non-WEIRD’, in the Heinrich-et-al.-(2010) sense of ‘WEIRD’ (Western educated industrialized rich democratic). I don’t personally mind using
that term, but it is awfully vague. There are many developing nations that I would not consider WEIRD (they may check neither of the five definitional properties), but that do not globally fit the ‘traditional’ concept either.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">‘(Non-)Western cultures/societies’: By this I mean any cultures/societies of (non-)European origin/descent. The problem with the label ‘Western’ is the very misleading geographic association with the
Western hemisphere: the vast majority of Europe isn’t even part of the Western hemisphere, and there are ‘Western’ societies (societies of European descent) outside Europe *<b>and</b>* outside the Western hemisphere, *<b>and</b>* of course there are many ‘non-Western’
cultures in the Western hemisphere. I’m well aware that the etymology of this use of ‘Western’ has little to do with the model of the geographic hemispheres, but my sense is that people make the association whether it belongs there or not – I know I do.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">I suspect the best solution to the second problem is to just talk about ‘cultures/societies of (non-)European origin/descent’. That’s a mouthful, but sooner or later somebody will coin a handy acronym.
But I wanted to make sure I’m not missing anything.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;">Anyway, many thanks in advance for your help! – Juergen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: "CMU Serif"; font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(0, 120, 212);"><u><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" style="color: rgb(0, 120, 212); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">jb77@buffalo.edu</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><br>
Web: </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(5, 99, 193);"><u><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" style="color: rgb(5, 99, 193); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"> <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: black;">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 9pt; color: black;"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 11pt 0.0001pt 47pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">-- </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0cm 76.05pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">
<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>