<div dir="ltr">Dear Christian,<div><br></div><div>I can't help responding with some Bantu, where this is not "a trivial little problem". Seven vowels (7V) are reconstructed in Proto-Bantu, although many Bantu languages have only canonical /i, e, u, o, a/. (Certain peripheral Bantu languages have more ATR variants and other complications.) The problem concerns both reconstructed and current 7V systems, for which three different interpretations have appeared over the years:</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:ii_md0aa1xo1" alt="image.png" width="562" height="93"></div><div>(Hyman 1999:247)</div><div><br></div><div></div><div>(15a) involves a "noise" contrast in what used to be called "superhigh" vowels, but the more relevant problem is choosing between (15b) (now generally accepted) and (15c). The same problem arises in the 7V daughter languages where even after working for years on a language, a specialist may not be confident whether the "second degree" vowels are phonetically [ɪ ʊ] or [e, o] (or something in between?). Since (15c) is the expected 7V system worldwide, the rarer systems like (15b) are often transcribed as (15c). (This is also what Welmers also did for Liberian Kpelle, a Mande language, on the other side of the continent.) Phonologically there is height harmony between [ɪ ʊ] and [ɛ ɔ] in some languages and the more common ATR harmony between [e, o] and [ɛ ɔ] in others. While second degree /ɪ/ or /e/ harmonizes to [ɛ] after [ɛ] and [ɔ], there often is an asymmetry in either system that second degree /ʊ/ or /o/ does not harmonize to [ɔ] after /ɛ/, only after /ɔ/. This would suggest a relationship between degree 2 and degree 3 vowels. On the other hand, there is a relationship between degree 1 and degree 2 vowels: original 7V systems become 5V systems by merging degree 2 *ɪ, *ʊ with degree 1 *i, *u (although the latter typically leave an (af)fricated or palatalized trace on a preceding consonant).<br></div><div><br></div><div>In short, the phonetic closeness of [ɪ] and [e] (and [ʊ] and [o]) has been a recurrent issue in Bantu vowel phonology. I'm not sure if it has been resolved, but we seem to be talking less about it vs. much discussion a couple of decades ago.</div><div><br></div><div>Best, Larry</div><div><br></div><div>Hyman, Larry M. 1999. The historical interpretation of vowel harmony in Bantu. In Jean-Marie Hombert & Larry M. Hyman (eds), <i>Bantu historical linguistics: Theoretical and empirical perspective</i>s, 235-295. Stanford: C.S.L.I.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 3:52 AM Christian Lehmann via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
Here is a trivial little problem for the phoneticians and
phonologists:<br>
<br>
IPA
(<a href="https://www.internationalphoneticalphabet.org/ipa-sounds/ipa-chart-with-sounds/#ipachartstart" target="_blank">https://www.internationalphoneticalphabet.org/ipa-sounds/ipa-chart-with-sounds/#ipachartstart</a>)
says that [ɪ] and [e] contrast in two features, height and
frontness/backness.<br>
<br>
Being a speaker of a language whose phonetic transcription has
involved both of the above symbols for generations of phoneticians,
and the symbols represent different phonemes, I have always taken
this for granted. However, this pair of phones does not constitute
clean minimal pairs in German because [e] is long, [ɪ] is short.<br>
<br>
Describing now the Cabecar phonetics and phonology, there is a front
mid-high (IPA says 'near-close' or 'close-mid') vowel phoneme which
contrasts with both /i/ and /ɛ/, and there is no length. Chibchanist
tradition transcribes it by [ɪ]. (There is an analogous
configuration for /u/, /ʊ/ and /ɔ/.) I have two innocent questions
here:<br>
<ol>
<li>Do [ɪ] and [e] actually sound differently? If I click them on
the IPA webpage indicated, they sound identical to my ears. Same
if I stretch the [ɪ] in my own pronunciation of <i>bitte</i>.<br>
</li>
<li>Even supposing that these are two different phones, should the
(Cabecar) phoneme covering them not be taken to be /e/, rather
than /ɪ/ (and likewise for /o/ rather than /ʊ/)?</li>
</ol>
My (less innocent) suspicion is (but please correct me) that
transcribing German words like <i>bitte</i> with [ɪ] instead of the
[e] of <i>bete</i> is due to a phonological or even orthographic
bias.<br>
<br>
Curiously, if you ask Google "Is there a phonological contrast
between [ɪ] and [e]?", its KI cheats you, adducing English examples
spelled with <e> which represents an [ɛ].<br>
<div>-- <br>
<p style="font-size:90%">Prof. em. Dr. Christian Lehmann<br>
Rudolfstr. 4<br>
99092 Erfurt<br>
<span style="font-variant:small-caps">Deutschland</span></p>
<table style="font-size:80%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>Tel.:</td>
<td>+49/361/2113417</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>E-Post:</td>
<td><a href="mailto:christianw_lehmann@arcor.de" target="_blank">christianw_lehmann@arcor.de</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Web:</td>
<td><a href="https://www.christianlehmann.eu" target="_blank">https://www.christianlehmann.eu</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lingtyp mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" target="_blank">Lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<a href="https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lingtyp</a><br>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Larry M. Hyman, Distinguished Professor of the Graduate School</div><div>& Director, France-Berkeley Fund, University of California, Berkeley</div><div><a href="https://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~hyman" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">https://linguistics.berkeley.edu/~hyman</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>