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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">I think it is not propositional content that is recursive, it’s rather modal operators that are (in modal logic) functions from propositions to propositions and thus can be recursive. And illocutionary
forces are not operators in that sense but rather properties of speech acts. But if you imagine an operator that takes you from one speech act to another you could get something more like modal operators. Try “comment”. “Björn commented on Östen’s comment
on Alex’s comment on Vladimir’s posting”. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Östen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Från:</span></b><span lang="SV" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Wiemer, Bjoern <wiemerb@uni-mainz.de>
<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 25 oktober 2025 16:42<br>
<b>Till:</b> Juergen Bohnemeyer <jb77@buffalo.edu>; Östen Dahl <oesten@ling.su.se>; Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com>; Vladimir Panov <panovmeister@gmail.com><br>
<b>Kopia:</b> LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Ämne:</b> RE: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">just a small comment on Östen’s and Jürgen’s remarks. Don’t they lead to the conclusion that propositional content is recursive (just like embedding may be recursive)?
That is, there is, then, a theoretically infinite inclusion of propositions in propositions (as “objects” of mental acts, and of speech acts reporting on mental acts):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo3"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It is probable [that it is likely [that x said [that presumably [y claimed [that … ]]]]]<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I wonder whether the same could be done with illocutionary force. I guess that it cannot. And if not I wonder why this might be so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> Does anybody know why this might be so?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Björn.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Juergen Bohnemeyer via Lingtyp<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, October 25, 2025 4:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Östen Dahl <<a href="mailto:oesten@ling.su.se">oesten@ling.su.se</a>>; Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>>; Vladimir Panov <<a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com">panovmeister@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">Dear all — I had the same reaction as Östen - for me, the meaning of modal operators is also ‘propositional’, although it is of course distinct from that of their prejacent propositions. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">So what, then, is propositional content (if anything)? I think the term has its uses primarily in contexts in which we contrast meanings that can be spelled out in terms of propositions (i.e., representations
of states of affairs that can be true or false and may be objects of propositional attitudes such as belief and doubt) against meanings that cannot be spelled out in this manner. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">Take the meaning of color terms. According to the theory of color semantics developed by Paul Kay and collaborators, the literal meaning (as opposed to associated metaphors) of the word
<i>green</i></span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span><span lang="DE" style="color:black"> is a sensory quality with a prototype ('focal green’) that is neurophysiologically encoded. We can certainly express propositions
about green things, and even focal green (I just did) - but these propositions can never accurately capture or define the meaning of
<i>green</i>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">Now, some are strongly invested in the view that
<i>all</i> meaning is propositional content. Perhaps the most prominent scholar of this persuasion is Anna Wierzbicka. Here is Wierzbicka’s (1996: 306) analysis of green:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"> X is green. =<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"> in some places many things grow out of the ground<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"> when one sees things like X one can think of this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">I think everybody can judge for themselves whether they find this analysis convincing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">In my view, there is quite a range of linguistic meanings that cannot adequately be captured in propositional terms. Aside from color terms and other expressions of sensory perception, I would add for
example ideophones (not necessarily all of them, especially not when you take ‘ideophone’ as the label of a language-specific category of expressions), expressives, honorifics and other social deictics, and so on. I would go as far as to suggest that even
manner of motion verbs such as <i>walk</i> and <i>run</i> have meanings that we understand because our motor system knows how to engage in these activities, not because we can define them propositionally.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black">Where to draw the boundary between propositional and non-propositional content has long been a fascinating question to me. There’s much more I could say about this, but I’ll stop here as I’m sure people
have stopped reading a while ago </span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif;color:black">😉</span><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Best — Juergen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Wierzbicka, A. (1996). Semantics. Oxford: Oxford University Press.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<p style="margin:0cm"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Juergen Bohnemeyer (He/Him)<br>
Professor, Department of Linguistics<br>
University at Buffalo <br>
<br>
Office: 642 Baldy Hall, UB North Campus<br>
Mailing address: 609 Baldy Hall, Buffalo, NY 14260 <br>
Phone: (716) 645 0127 <br>
Fax: (716) 645 3825<br>
Email: </span><u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0078D4"><a href="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu" title="mailto:jb77@buffalo.edu"><span style="color:#0078D4">jb77@buffalo.edu</span></a></span></u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
Web: </span><u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0563C1"><a href="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/" title="http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/"><span style="color:#0563C1">http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~jb77/</span></a></span></u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> <br>
<br>
</span><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Office hours Tu/Th 3:30-4:30pm in 642 Baldy or via Zoom (Meeting ID 585 520 2411; Passcode Hoorheh) </span><span lang="DE" style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
<br>
There’s A Crack In Everything - That’s How The Light Gets In <br>
(Leonard Cohen) </span><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-- <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="margin:0cm"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span lang="DE" style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span lang="DE" style="color:black">Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>> on behalf of Östen Dahl via Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, October 25, 2025 at 09:26<br>
<b>To: </b>Alex Francois <<a href="mailto:alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com">alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com</a>>, Vladimir Panov <<a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com">panovmeister@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a> <<a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">Dear Vladimir, Alex, and all others,</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">I think a logician would say that a sentence with “a modal comment” like (1) in Alex’s posting contains not one proposition but two: (i) the proposition that the supermarket is open on Sundays, (ii)
the proposition that (i) might be true. Both (i) and (ii) are entities that can be true or false. But this means that the propositional content of (1) is (ii) rather than (i), since that is what is expressed by the whole sentence and what the speaker claims
is true.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">There is a tradition in linguistics to do things the way Alex proposes. I don’t know where it originally came from, but Fillmore in his 1968 paper “The Case for Case” divides the basic structure
of sentence into a “proposition” and a “modality constituent”. The difference between logicians and linguists may be that logicians tend to think of modal notions as objective while linguists regard them as subjective. The problem is that modalities may differ
in this regard. This could be a long discussion, but I will stop here.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">Best,</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt">Östen</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Från:</span></b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lingtyp <<a href="mailto:lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org</a>>
<b>För </b>Alex Francois via Lingtyp<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 25 oktober 2025 13:16<br>
<b>Till:</b> Vladimir Panov <<a href="mailto:panovmeister@gmail.com">panovmeister@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Kopia:</b> <a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a><br>
<b>Ämne:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Dear Vladimir,</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thanks for an interesting question.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In my understanding, the notion of "propositional content" stems from the logical analysis of language. It reflects the attempt to isolate, in an utterance, the reported state-of-affairs
from what the speaker says about it.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Thus if I say (1)
<i>The supermarket might even be open on Sundays</i>, one can propose to mentally separate:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">the propositional content X: <br>
<the supermarket being open on Sundays></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l2 level1 lfo6"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">the modal comment about that content X:<br>
<X might be true> = <it is possible for X to be true></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Now if we compare (1) with </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(2)
<i>There is no way the supermarket would be open on Sundays</i>,</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">we may say that both utterances share the exact same
<i>propositional content</i> X, but they include a different modal stance about it.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In the case of (2), the modal comment would be <there's no way that X is true> = <it is necessary for X to be false>.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The first author, I believe, to have formalised similar concepts is Thomas Aquinas ~ Tommaso d'Aquino (13th century), in his short
<i>De propositionibus modalibus</i> ['On modal propositions'] (which might be apocryphal). I found the original text
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://www.corpusthomisticum.org/dpp.html">here</a></span></u> in Latin; a French translation
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="http://docteurangelique.free.fr/bibliotheque/opuscules/39lespropositionsmodales.htm">here</a></span></u>;
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://eprints.illc.uva.nl/id/eprint/2074/1/DS-2009-04.text.pdf#page=173">Uckelman (2009: 157-9)</a></span></u> has an English translation. </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Aquinas contrasted the
<i>dictum</i> ["what is said" ≈propositional content]<br>
from the <i>modus</i> [the 'manner', i.e. what is said about the dictum]. His examples included:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(3)
<i>Necesse est Socratem currere. </i>“For Socrates to run is necessarily true.”</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(4)
<i>Possibile est Socratem currere. </i>“For Socrates to run is possible.”, </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">etc.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In a passage which I find incredibly modern, Aquinas notes that polarity can affect sometimes the dictum, sometimes the modus:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In (5)
<i>Possibile est Socratem non currere</i> “It is possible for Socrates not to run”, the negation is internal to the dictum.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In (6)
<i>Non possibile est Socratem currere</i> “It is not possible for Socrates to run”, the negation is a property of the modus.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">(Orig. quote:
<i>Item sciendum est quod propositio modalis dicitur affirmativa vel negativa secundum affirmationem vel negationem modi, et non dicti.</i> which could be rendered: "Importantly, the modality will be said affirmative vs. negative depending on the polarity of
the modus, not of the dictum.")</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Aquinas' proposals have played a major role in formal logic; <br>
they were also introduced to linguistics by French linguist Charles Bally in 1932 (cf.
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://hal.science/hal-02310043v1/">Gosselin 2015</a></span></u>).</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The word
<i>modus</i> is the source of our later concepts of <i>mood</i> and <i>modality</i>.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I just found an interesting paper by Per Martin-Löf “Are the objects of propositional attitudes propositions in the sense of propositional and predicate logic?” (<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://pml.flu.cas.cz/uploads/PML-Geneva19Dec03.pdf">2003</a></span></u>)
In this table, he compares Bally's contrast <i>modus</i> vs. <i>dictum</i> [actually from Aquinas] with proposals by other logicians and linguists:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="442" height="272" style="width:4.6041in;height:2.8333in" id="Bild_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01DC45D0.6191C710"></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Löf here proposes that the term “propositional content” was mostly used by John Searle. I guess this refers to Searle's 1969
<i>Speech acts</i>, though Löf does not elaborate.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Admittedly, "illocutionary force" is different from "modus", but there is indeed a filiation across these different notional couples.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Other people on this list will be able to point to specific passages in Searle's works.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">_______</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Finally, another attempt to adapt similar ideas to linguistics was Simon Dik's Functional grammar:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif">Dik, Simon. (1989).
<i>The Theory of Functional Grammar. Part I: The Structure of the Clause</i> (Vol. 9). Foris.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">At first glance, Dik's equivalent to the
<i>dictum</i> is what he calls the "state of affairs" (SoA), which he defines p.51:</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE"><img border="0" width="471" height="393" style="width:4.9062in;height:4.0937in" id="Bild_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01DC45D0.6191C710"></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">That said, Dik is worth reading because, rather than a mere binary contrast (such as
<i>dictum</i> vs. <i>modus</i>) he proposes to distinguish different logical / semantic levels of the utterance, organised in a fine-grained hierarchy (see his p.50):</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="366" height="408" style="width:3.8125in;height:4.25in" id="Bild_x0020_3" src="cid:image003.png@01DC45D0.6191C710"></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Dik carefully distinguishes between SoA, possible fact, predication, proposition, clause... </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Different operators
</span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Courier New"">π</span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> (e.g. Tense, Aspect, Modality, Polarity, Truth value, Illocutionary act...), and also what he calls "satellites"
</span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Courier New"">σ</span><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> (syntactic adjuncts etc), attach to different layers among these. </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Interestingly, Dik describes one of his layers as “propositional content”, which he equates with “possible fact” (p.52):</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE"><img border="0" width="457" height="283" style="width:4.7604in;height:2.9479in" id="Bild_x0020_4" src="cid:image004.png@01DC45D0.6191C710"></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">See also pp.294 ff. </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Dik's concept of prop. content is more specific than the same term used by Searle or the
<i>dictum</i> of other authors;</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In his terms, propositional content is of a "higher-order structure" than the core state-of-affairs.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">In my publications describing the Oceanic languages of northern Vanuatu, I have found such analytical tools (under the same or similar names) quite useful, particularly when describing
tense, aspect, modality or illocutionary force in different languages -- whether TAMP in Mwotlap (<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_books_e.htm#hide3:~:text=La%20S%C3%A9mantique%20du%20Pr%C3%A9dicat%20en%20Mwotlap">2003</a></span></u>,
<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#fcc">f/c c</a></span></u>), the Aorist in NV languages (<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2009a">2009a</a></span></u>), the
Subjunctive in Hiw & Lo-Toga (<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2010b">2010b</a></span></u>), etc.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I hope this is useful.</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">best</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Alex</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">
<hr size="2" width="70" style="width:52.5pt" align="left">
</span></div>
</div>
<p class="wordsection1"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#45818E">Alex François</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" target="_blank">LaTTiCe</a></span></u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> —
<u><span style="color:#3366CC"><a href="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC">CNRS</span></a></span></u>
<u><span style="color:#3366CC"><a href="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC">—</span></a></span></u>
<u><span style="color:#3366CC"><a href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC">ENS</span></a></span></u>–<u><span style="color:#3366CC"><a href="https://www.psl.eu/en" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC">PSL</span></a></span></u> —
<u><span style="color:#3366CC"><a href="http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" target="_blank" title="ENS"><span style="color:#3366CC">Sorbonne nouvelle</span></a></span></u></span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#3366CC"><a href="https://researchportalplus.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3366CC">Australian National University</span></a></span></u><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#3366CC"><a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#3366CC">Personal homepage</span></a></span></u><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:7.5pt">_________________________________________</span><span lang="DE"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <b>Vladimir Panov via Lingtyp</b> <<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span></u>><br>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 03:00<br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<br>
To: <<u><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></span></u>><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Dear typologists,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">In various traditions of linguistics, both "formal" and "functional", there is a habit to speak of "propositional content". I have a feeling that this term is very difficult to define, especially if one takes cross-linguistic
variation seriously. In practice, many linguistis tend to use the term as if the reader knew exactly what it means. Needles to say, the term has a long and complex history.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Are you aware of any relatively up-to-date and possibly typllogy-friendly literature which discusses this problem?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Thank you,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE">Vladimir<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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