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Dear all — I had the same reaction as Östen - for me, the meaning of modal operators is also ‘propositional’, although it is of course distinct from that of their prejacent propositions. </div>
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So what, then, is propositional content (if anything)? I think the term has its uses primarily in contexts in which we contrast meanings that can be spelled out in terms of propositions (i.e., representations of states of affairs that can be true or false and
may be objects of propositional attitudes such as belief and doubt) against meanings that cannot be spelled out in this manner. </div>
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Take the meaning of color terms. According to the theory of color semantics developed by Paul Kay and collaborators, the literal meaning (as opposed to associated metaphors) of the word
<i>green</i> is a sensory quality with a prototype ('focal green’) that is neurophysiologically encoded. We can certainly express propositions about green things, and even focal green (I just did) - but these propositions can never accurately capture or define
the meaning of <i>green</i>.</div>
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Now, some are strongly invested in the view that <i>all</i> meaning is propositional content. Perhaps the most prominent scholar of this persuasion is Anna Wierzbicka. Here is Wierzbicka’s (1996: 306) analysis of green:</div>
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X is green. =</div>
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in some places many things grow out of the ground</div>
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when one sees things like X one can think of this.</div>
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I think everybody can judge for themselves whether they find this analysis convincing. </div>
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In my view, there is quite a range of linguistic meanings that cannot adequately be captured in propositional terms. Aside from color terms and other expressions of sensory perception, I would add for example ideophones (not necessarily all of them, especially
not when you take ‘ideophone’ as the label of a language-specific category of expressions), expressives, honorifics and other social deictics, and so on. I would go as far as to suggest that even manner of motion verbs such as
<i>walk</i> and <i>run</i> have meanings that we understand because our motor system knows how to engage in these activities, not because we can define them propositionally.</div>
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Where to draw the boundary between propositional and non-propositional content has long been a fascinating question to me. There’s much more I could say about this, but I’ll stop here as I’m sure people have stopped reading a while ago 😉</div>
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Best — Juergen</div>
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Wierzbicka, A. (1996). Semantics. Oxford: Oxford University Press.</div>
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<b>From: </b>Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org> on behalf of Östen Dahl via Lingtyp <lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Date: </b>Saturday, October 25, 2025 at 09:26<br>
<b>To: </b>Alex Francois <alex.francois.cnrs@gmail.com>, Vladimir Panov <panovmeister@gmail.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org <LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<br>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Dear Vladimir, Alex, and all others,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">I think a logician would say that a sentence with “a modal comment” like (1) in Alex’s posting contains not one proposition but two: (i) the proposition that the supermarket is open on Sundays, (ii) the proposition that (i) might
be true. Both (i) and (ii) are entities that can be true or false. But this means that the propositional content of (1) is (ii) rather than (i), since that is what is expressed by the whole sentence and what the speaker claims is true.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">There is a tradition in linguistics to do things the way Alex proposes. I don’t know where it originally came from, but Fillmore in his 1968 paper “The Case for Case” divides the basic structure of sentence into a “proposition”
and a “modality constituent”. The difference between logicians and linguists may be that logicians tend to think of modal notions as objective while linguists regard them as subjective. The problem is that modalities may differ in this regard. This could be
a long discussion, but I will stop here.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Best,</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Östen</span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><b>Från:</b> Lingtyp <lingtyp-bounces@listserv.linguistlist.org>
<b>För </b>Alex Francois via Lingtyp<br>
<b>Skickat:</b> den 25 oktober 2025 13:16<br>
<b>Till:</b> Vladimir Panov <panovmeister@gmail.com><br>
<b>Kopia:</b> LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org<br>
<b>Ämne:</b> Re: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Dear Vladimir,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Thanks for an interesting question.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In my understanding, the notion of "propositional content" stems from the logical analysis of language. It reflects the attempt to isolate, in an utterance, the reported state-of-affairs from what the speaker
says about it.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Thus if I say (1) <i>The supermarket might even be open on Sundays</i>, one can propose to mentally separate:</span></p>
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<li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" role="presentation">the propositional content X: <br>
<the supermarket being open on Sundays></span></li><li style="font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0cm;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" role="presentation">the modal comment about that content X:<br>
<X might be true> = <it is possible for X to be true></span></li></ul>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Now if we compare (1) with </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">(2) <i>There is no way the supermarket would be open on Sundays</i>,</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">we may say that both utterances share the exact same
<i>propositional content</i> X, but they include a different modal stance about it.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In the case of (2), the modal comment would be <there's no way that X is true> = <it is necessary for X to be false>.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">________</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The first author, I believe, to have formalised similar concepts is Thomas Aquinas ~ Tommaso d'Aquino (13th century), in his short
<i>De propositionibus modalibus</i> ['On modal propositions'] (which might be apocryphal). I found the original text
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://www.corpusthomisticum.org/dpp.html" originalsrc="https://www.corpusthomisticum.org/dpp.html" data-outlook-id="bd4009a0-a842-4278-bc23-4a21785a290e" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">here</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> in
Latin; a French translation </span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="http://docteurangelique.free.fr/bibliotheque/opuscules/39lespropositionsmodales.htm" originalsrc="http://docteurangelique.free.fr/bibliotheque/opuscules/39lespropositionsmodales.htm" data-outlook-id="f2a48f59-c629-43de-b11f-1b52f561dc69" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">here</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">;
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://eprints.illc.uva.nl/id/eprint/2074/1/DS-2009-04.text.pdf#page=173" originalsrc="https://eprints.illc.uva.nl/id/eprint/2074/1/DS-2009-04.text.pdf#page=173" data-outlook-id="7fa15765-e297-48f3-9724-440f3b1a9cbb" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Uckelman
(2009: 157-9)</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> has an English translation. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Aquinas contrasted the <i>dictum</i> ["what is said" ≈propositional content]<br>
from the <i>modus</i> [the 'manner', i.e. what is said about the dictum]. His examples included:</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">(3) <i>Necesse est Socratem currere.
</i>“For Socrates to run is necessarily true.”</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">(4) <i>Possibile est Socratem currere.
</i>“For Socrates to run is possible.”, </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">etc.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In a passage which I find incredibly modern, Aquinas notes that polarity can affect sometimes the dictum, sometimes the modus:</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In (5) <i>Possibile est Socratem non currere</i> “It is possible for Socrates not to run”, the negation is internal to the dictum.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In (6) <i>Non possibile est Socratem currere</i> “It is not possible for Socrates to run”, the negation is a property of the modus.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">(Orig. quote: <i>Item sciendum est quod propositio modalis dicitur affirmativa vel negativa secundum affirmationem vel negationem modi, et non dicti.</i> which could be rendered: "Importantly, the modality will
be said affirmative vs. negative depending on the polarity of the modus, not of the dictum.")</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">________</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Aquinas' proposals have played a major role in formal logic; <br>
they were also introduced to linguistics by French linguist Charles Bally in 1932 (cf.
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://hal.science/hal-02310043v1/" originalsrc="https://hal.science/hal-02310043v1/" data-outlook-id="6b67a97b-dcbe-4c63-9f14-fc755cbccc8a" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Gosselin
2015</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">).</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The word <i>modus</i> is the source of our later concepts of
<i>mood</i> and <i>modality</i>.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">________</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">I just found an interesting paper by Per Martin-Löf “Are the objects of propositional attitudes propositions in the sense of propositional and predicate logic?” (</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://pml.flu.cas.cz/uploads/PML-Geneva19Dec03.pdf" originalsrc="https://pml.flu.cas.cz/uploads/PML-Geneva19Dec03.pdf" data-outlook-id="f8deec33-a7fd-46ca-8ed9-dbf2ef15d633" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">2003</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">)
In this table, he compares Bally's contrast <i>modus</i> vs. <i>dictum</i> [actually from Aquinas] with proposals by other logicians and linguists:</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img src="cid:image001.png@01DC45B5.F19F5360" id="Bild_x0020_1" width="442" height="272" style="width: 4.6145in; height: 2.8437in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Löf here proposes that the term “propositional content” was mostly used by John Searle. I guess this refers to Searle's 1969
<i>Speech acts</i>, though Löf does not elaborate.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Admittedly, "illocutionary force" is different from "modus", but there is indeed a filiation across these different notional couples.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Other people on this list will be able to point to specific passages in Searle's works.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">_______</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Finally, another attempt to adapt similar ideas to linguistics was Simon Dik's Functional grammar:</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS", sans-serif;">Dik, Simon. (1989). <i>The Theory of Functional Grammar. Part I: The Structure of the Clause</i> (Vol. 9). Foris.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">At first glance, Dik's equivalent to the
<i>dictum</i> is what he calls the "state of affairs" (SoA), which he defines p.51:</span></p>
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<img src="cid:image002.png@01DC45B5.F19F5360" id="Bild_x0020_2" width="471" height="393" style="width: 4.9166in; height: 4.1041in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">That said, Dik is worth reading because, rather than a mere binary contrast (such as
<i>dictum</i> vs. <i>modus</i>) he proposes to distinguish different logical / semantic levels of the utterance, organised in a fine-grained hierarchy (see his p.50):</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img src="cid:image003.png@01DC45B5.F19F5360" id="Bild_x0020_3" width="366" height="408" style="width: 3.8125in; height: 4.25in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Dik carefully distinguishes between SoA, possible fact, predication, proposition, clause... </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Different operators </span><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">π</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> (e.g. Tense, Aspect, Modality, Polarity, Truth value, Illocutionary act...), and also
what he calls "satellites" </span><span style="font-family: "Courier New";">σ</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> (syntactic adjuncts etc), attach to different layers among these. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Interestingly, Dik describes one of his layers as “propositional content”, which he equates with “possible fact” (p.52):</span></p>
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<img src="cid:image004.png@01DC45B5.F19F5360" id="Bild_x0020_4" width="457" height="283" style="width: 4.7708in; height: 2.9583in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">See also pp.294 ff. </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Dik's concept of prop. content is more specific than the same term used by Searle or the
<i>dictum</i> of other authors;</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In his terms, propositional content is of a "higher-order structure" than the core state-of-affairs.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">________</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">In my publications describing the Oceanic languages of northern Vanuatu, I have found such analytical tools (under the same or similar names) quite useful, particularly when describing tense, aspect, modality
or illocutionary force in different languages -- whether TAMP in Mwotlap (</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_books_e.htm#hide3:~:text=La%20S%C3%A9mantique%20du%20Pr%C3%A9dicat%20en%20Mwotlap" originalsrc="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_books_e.htm#hide3:~:text=La%20S%C3%A9mantique%20du%20Pr%C3%A9dicat%20en%20Mwotlap" data-outlook-id="175884f3-1b82-451c-8d5f-ede54c655df2" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">2003</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">,
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#fcc" originalsrc="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#fcc" data-outlook-id="473d615f-5b23-4cc2-98ec-abd546b82bf7" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">f/c
c</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">), the Aorist in NV languages (</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2009a" originalsrc="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2009a" data-outlook-id="a442816c-77cb-4dbe-b4d8-a31482cf2985" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">2009a</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">),
the Subjunctive in Hiw & Lo-Toga (</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: blue;"><u><a href="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2010b" originalsrc="https://marama.huma-num.fr/AFpub_articles_e.htm#2010b" data-outlook-id="68bd8fe8-d032-49ca-a8fa-2b0cda409edf" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">2010b</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">),
etc.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">________</span></p>
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</p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">I hope this is useful.</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">best</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;">Alex</span></p>
<hr align="left" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; width: 52.5pt;">
<p class="WordSection1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(69, 129, 142);">Alex François</span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: blue;"><u><a href="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" target="_blank" originalsrc="http://www.lattice.cnrs.fr/en/alexandre-francois/" data-outlook-id="b5fdd88b-cede-4b6c-bbad-ddff2a51cee4" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">LaTTiCe</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> —
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" target="_blank" title="ENS" originalsrc="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" data-outlook-id="a28e2904-19c6-4da2-8b33-9511fbf24be2" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">CNRS</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" target="_blank" title="ENS" originalsrc="https://www.cnrs.fr/en" data-outlook-id="df6df27a-ebd5-4a32-a3f7-e8b2d679f52f" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">—</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" target="_blank" title="ENS" originalsrc="https://www.ens.fr/laboratoire/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-et-cognition-umr-8094" data-outlook-id="9dd0cbab-8453-49fc-b3d6-22c78fad9c39" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">ENS</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;">–</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="https://www.psl.eu/en" target="_blank" title="ENS" originalsrc="https://www.psl.eu/en" data-outlook-id="f2ea3af7-5a21-435c-a3a5-d0c8fce5dff3" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">PSL</a></u></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt;"> —
</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" target="_blank" title="ENS" originalsrc="http://www.sorbonne-nouvelle.fr/lattice-langues-textes-traitements-informatiques-cognition-umr-8094-3458.kjsp" data-outlook-id="a47f3554-d963-48dd-a92e-39efd24cd07a" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Sorbonne
nouvelle</a></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="https://researchportalplus.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois" target="_blank" originalsrc="https://researchportalplus.anu.edu.au/en/persons/alex-francois" data-outlook-id="5164a44f-8ec9-49b2-8a20-47a78c4e63ca" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Australian
National University</a></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 7.5pt; color: rgb(51, 102, 204);"><u><a href="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" target="_blank" originalsrc="http://alex.francois.online.fr/" data-outlook-id="559abad9-4396-428c-8885-aae10f826a0d" style="color: rgb(51, 102, 204); margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Personal
homepage</a></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size: 7.5pt;">_________________________________________</span></p>
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</p>
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---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>
From: <b>Vladimir Panov via Lingtyp</b> <<span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-outlook-id="321f6a7c-bb07-43fc-b04a-7b88865c0553" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">lingtyp@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span>><br>
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 03:00<br>
Subject: [Lingtyp] What is propositional content?<br>
To: <<span style="color: blue;"><u><a href="mailto:LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org" data-outlook-id="9ab0f68a-ca9c-4092-a71d-5540d34b569e" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">LINGTYP@listserv.linguistlist.org</a></u></span>></p>
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</p>
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Dear typologists,</p>
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</p>
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In various traditions of linguistics, both "formal" and "functional", there is a habit to speak of "propositional content". I have a feeling that this term is very difficult to define, especially if one takes cross-linguistic variation seriously. In practice,
many linguistis tend to use the term as if the reader knew exactly what it means. Needles to say, the term has a long and complex history.</p>
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</p>
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Are you aware of any relatively up-to-date and possibly typllogy-friendly literature which discusses this problem?</p>
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</p>
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Thank you,</p>
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Vladimir</p>
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