9.729, Disc: Recent Change in English

[LINGUIST Network]

LINGUIST List:  Vol-9-729. Sat May 16 1998. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 9.729, Disc: Recent Change in English

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=================================Directory=================================

1)
Date:  Sun, 17 May 1998 17:29:36 -0400
From:  Karen Davis <kmdavis at erols.com>
Subject:  THE Ukraine (was Recent changes)

2)
Date:  Sat, 16 May 1998 18:08:42 -0400
From:  MARC PICARD <picard at vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject:  Re: 9.727, Disc: Recent changes in English

3)
Date:  Sat, 16 May 1998 17:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
From:  David Robertson <drobert at tincan.tincan.org>
Subject:  Re: 9.675, Disc: Recent Change in English

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Sun, 17 May 1998 17:29:36 -0400
From:  Karen Davis <kmdavis at erols.com>
Subject:  THE Ukraine (was Recent changes)

While I can't comment on the disappearance of articles, "the Ukraine"
is gone for political/national reasons. "The" Ukraine relagates an
independent country to the status of a geographical
location. "Ukraine" does mean "borderland", and it's the RUSSIAN term
for what was once Rus'. Russia itself adopted that name (as opposed to
Muscovy) after the Great Northern War which saw the destruction of
Ukraine as anything resembling an independent nation. The first
textual references to "Ukraine" use the term to mean the Kievan
hinterlands, before "Russia" was a country.  -- Karen Davis


-------------------------------- Message 2 -------------------------------

Date:  Sat, 16 May 1998 18:08:42 -0400
From:  MARC PICARD <picard at vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject:  Re: 9.727, Disc: Recent changes in English

> >Date:  Tue, 12 May 1998 21:03:15 -0400
> >From:  MARC PICARD <picard at vax2.concordia.ca>
> >Subject:  Re: 9.701, Disc: Recent Change in English
> >
> Now who
> >can tell me how long the following exchange has been going on:
> >
> >A: Hey, how are you today?
> >B: I'm good. How are you?
> >
> >Marc Picard

> Date:  Fri, 15 May 1998 19:14:35 -0500
> From:  Rick Mc Callister <rmccalli at MUW.Edu>
> Subject:  Re: 9.720, Disc: Recent Change in English
>
>  Marc: I've been hearing it all my life since my family is from
> Appalachia. It's been around as a non-standard form probably dozens,
> if not hundreds of years back. But, as far as I remember, it's only
> been in the 10 or 15 years that "educated" people have been using
> it. It's definitely a "gen X" tag

Well, I don't know about all of you but my conclusion from this and
everything else I've been hearing in this discussion is that there are
NO recent changes in English :-)

Marc


-------------------------------- Message 3 -------------------------------

Date:  Sat, 16 May 1998 17:13:45 -0700 (PDT)
From:  David Robertson <drobert at tincan.tincan.org>
Subject:  Re: 9.675, Disc: Recent Change in English

Another change particularly noticeable in the English of the
present-day USA came to my attention as I read a library procedure
today at work.  It involves the implicit direct object "data", and if
that sounds odd to you, think how we Americans use e.g. the verb give:

"You can only give the patron their due date and fine amount."

"Okay, let me give you my Social Security number."

"Does it [the printed schedule] give the time [when the TV program
comes on]?"

-  And correspondingly  --

"May I take your date of birth?"

The most probable cause for the appearance and rapid wide spread of
such locutions is the Information Culture which dominates the United
States.

'Course, all you'd hafta do is walk around with a tape recorder for a
day in order to collect enough data to provide, upon considered
analysis, five dozen modificatory notes to a standard American English
grammar.

David Robertson

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