10.1990, Qs: Hangzhou Numerals & Unicode, ISSHAR & Unicode

[LINGUIST Network]

LINGUIST List:  Vol-10-1990. Tue Dec 21 1999. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 10.1990, Qs: Hangzhou Numerals & Unicode, ISSHAR & Unicode

Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar: Wayne State U.<aristar at linguistlist.org>
            Helen Dry: Eastern Michigan U. <hdry at linguistlist.org>
            Andrew Carnie: U. of Arizona <carnie at linguistlist.org>

Reviews: Andrew Carnie: U. of Arizona <carnie at linguistlist.org>

Associate Editors:  Martin Jacobsen <marty at linguistlist.org>
                    Ljuba Veselinova <ljuba at linguistlist.org>
		    Scott Fults <scott at linguistlist.org>
		    Jody Huellmantel <jody at linguistlist.org>
		    Karen Milligan <karen at linguistlist.org>

Assistant Editors:  Lydia Grebenyova <lydia at linguistlist.org>
		    Naomi Ogasawara <naomi at linguistlist.org>
		    James Yuells <james at linguistlist.org>

Software development: John H. Remmers <remmers at emunix.emich.edu>
                      Sudheendra Adiga <sudhi at linguistlist.org>
                      Qian Liao <qian at linguistlist.org>

Home Page:  http://linguistlist.org/


Editor for this issue: James Yuells <james at linguistlist.org>
 ==========================================================================

We'd like to remind readers that the responses to queries are usually
best posted to the individual asking the question. That individual is
then  strongly encouraged to post a summary to the list.   This policy was
instituted to help control the huge volume of mail on LINGUIST; so we
would appreciate your cooperating with it whenever it seems appropriate.

=================================Directory=================================

1)
Date:  Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:12:50 -0500
From:  "Patrick Andries" <pandries at iti.qc.ca>
Subject:  Hangzhou Numerals/ Unicode

2)
Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:09:06 -0500
From:  "Patrick Andries" <pandries at iti.qc.ca>
Subject:  ISSHAR/ Bengali and Oriya

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:12:50 -0500
From:  "Patrick Andries" <pandries at iti.qc.ca>
Subject:  Hangzhou Numerals/ Unicode

Another problem related to Unicode, but this time Chinese.

Unicode has named the numerals used by shopkeepers (I can
send rough reprensentation) Hangzhou numerals (U+3021 for 1
which is a vertical bar).
My problem is that I don't seem to find anyone else but
Unicode that names those numerals Hangzhou.

 In Putonghua, I believe they are called su1-zhou1-ma3-zi,
"Suzhou numerals". In Cantonese they are, according to
Sidney Lau, called the "Soochow"  characters. There are
other names reported in Matthew's Mandarin dictionary, with
similar names in Cantonese.
They are also called "Suzhou"/"Commercial" numbers in the
Chinese-Russian Encyclopedia, also giving  su1-zhou1-ma3-er.
The "Chinese Encyclopedia, Vol. 8" also calls them "Suzhou

This is what I found in G. Ifrah's Histoire universelle des
chiffres (2 volumes of a thousand pages each, I'm not sure
this edition has been translated into English), vol. I, p. 633
« To the various forms presented above, one needs to add the
very special aspect of the signs used only by shopkeepers to
indicate the price of thei wares. Called gán mà zí
["kan ma tseu" in EFEO transcription] ("secret
marks"), these numerals are those that every foreigner
visiting the center of China must absolutely know if he is
to understand the amount of his bill. »
G. Ifrah has two variants for numeral five (the form
represented in the character charts and a kind of z in latin
script)  and numeral one hundred (a kind of hooked theta and
some character looking like a 3) (not in ISO 10646/Unicode).

Can someone tell me what those numerals are called ? Is
Hangzhou numerals a known denomination ? Or then, what
should they be called ?

Patrick Andries
Saint-Hubert (Québec)





-------------------------------- Message 2 -------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:09:06 -0500
From:  "Patrick Andries" <pandries at iti.qc.ca>
Subject:  ISSHAR/ Bengali and Oriya


Unicode has encoded two characters that it names ISSHAR, one for Bengali
(U+09FA) and one for Oriya (U+0B70).

1) I was  wondering how this  name is written Bengali (and Oriya) ?  More
specifically how is « SSH » parsed ? Is it something like SA+VIRAMA+SHA (s')
or SSA+( s.) VIRAMA+HA (or a third alternative) ?


2) Also what is it used for ?

P. Andries
Montreal

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
LINGUIST List: Vol-10-1990