11.1970, Sum: The @ Sign/Addendum
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Tue Sep 19 14:49:59 UTC 2000
LINGUIST List: Vol-11-1970. Tue Sep 19 2000. ISSN: 1068-4875.
Subject: 11.1970, Sum: The @ Sign/Addendum
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=================================Directory=================================
1)
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:47:05 +0800
From: karchung <karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw>
Subject: The @ sign (3)
-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 07:47:05 +0800
From: karchung <karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw>
Subject: The @ sign (3)
Here is the third posting of data collected on names for the @
sign in different languages. I sincerely thank all the people who
responded, some of whom I remember from the previous survey. I
*really* appreciate your input and contribution!
I was just a bit disappointed in the response - I may have had
overly high expectations after the overwhelming response to the
first survey. So where the data wasn't served up to me on a
silver e-platter, I went to the data. I used google.com to find
community message boards, tourist agencies, and Internet service
sites - even subscribed to language-specific computer discussion
lists - one country/language at a time. I was amply rewarded: I
consider the data I dug up in this way for languages like
Georgian, Tajiki and Mongolian to be real treasures.
I found the enthusiastic response of the Occitan group very
interesting. It seemed to show evidence of (very admirable)
active efforts at reviving and updating a minority language. I
was also pleased to get data on international sign languages.
The preponderance of 'monkey' related words is notable.
Especially interesting is Croatian, which uses the *English* word
'monkey' (and not the Serbian term), though 'monkey' is not to my
knowledge used in this way in English at all! (My apologies to
Mirjana Dedaic for not including your data in the earlier
survey.)
I have included responses reporting no known word for @ in a
specific language. This data is as valuable as receiving a name
for @, if just a bit less fun. The same applies when use of the
English 'at' (or in the case of Dharmsala Tibetan, 'at the rate
of'!) is reported. These reports give us lots of information
about how far the Internet/e-mail technology has spread (i.e. to
just a few rich techies or organizations vs. just about
everybody, or something in between), the language used to
facilitate this spread, and perhaps general patterns of loan word
importation, e.g. phonetic loan vs. calque/loan translation vs.
original coinage.
There are still big gaps - e.g. one correspondent provided the
English translation of a Vietnamese term for @, but not the
original Vietnamese. And there is a string of words in Indian
languages which I haven't been able to verify. Well, if you know
a word for @ that hasn't been reported yet, in any language at
all, do send it over!
Karen Steffen Chung
National Taiwan University
karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
Heartfelt thanks to:
Aanta <aanta at boreale.se>
Dr. Agrawal <jhagarwal at bom6.vsnl.net.in>
Arthur <plastic at freenet.am>
Ben Bagheri <ben at persianoutpost.com>
Etrit Bardhi <etrit at alb-net.com>
Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blanc at excite.com>
Vesselin Bontchev <bontchev at complex.is>
Hyeon-Woo Cho <langhcho at ijnc.inje.ac.kr>
Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliuc at anu.edu.au>
Annie Désaulniers <adesauln at hotmail.com>
Mirjana N. Dedaic <nelson-dedaic at t-online.de> (Nelson-Dedaic)
Ivan A Derzhanski <iad at math.bas.bg>
Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsak at guest.arnes.si>
Gregor Erbach <erbach at ftw.at>
Alexander Fatsis <laotse1976 at hotmail.com>
Nancy Frishberg <nancyf at fishbird.com>
"Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmg at hplaw.co.id>
Beso Gugushvili <bpg at clinet.fi>
Roelly Guillaume <roelly at magma.cgg.com>
Dan Haig <gizard at xanatoo.cyborganic.com>
Uri Horesh <urih at babel.ling.upenn.edu>
Andrew Erik Langkj=E6r?= <aela at int.tele.dk>
Peter Malling <malling at asia.dk>
Mark Mandel <Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com>
Philippe Mennecier <phm at cimrs1.mnhn.fr>
Michalis Milapides <mm at enl.auth.gr>
Christopher Miller <miller.christopher at uqam.ca,
list-oc at cco.asso.fr>
Mongolian National Tourism Centre <ntc at mongol.net>
Victoria Nyst <victorianyst at hotmail.com>
Sinan Oymaci <sinanoym at triosh.com>
Dan Parvaz <dparvaz at unm.edu>
Micheu Prat <Micheu.Prat at wanadoo.fr>
Sankaralingam <umayal at pacific.net.sg>
Dominic Sansom <sansomdesign at is.com.fj>
Raija Solatie <raija.solatie at kolumbus.fi>
Domergue Sumien <d_sumien at club-internet.fr>
Tojik (Tajikistan Online Forum: email-notice at boardhost.com)
Vasia Staff <staff at vasia.com>
Rémy Viredaz <remy.viredaz at span.ch>
viplob <viplobp at himalmedia.com>
Vivien at Tyco International, Hong Kong
Colin Whiteley <cwhiteley at tycoint.com>
Andy Wilcox <andy at wilcox.the.forthnet.gr>
Now, the data. I am including only *new* responses; please go to
the earlier two @ summaries for the complete story, as far as
I've been able to get it.
*****************************************
ALBANIAN
Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:55:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Etrit Bardhi <etrit at alb-net.com>
As far as I know, it is called "Shenja e Majmunit" (The Monkey
Sign).
Etrit
*****************************************
ARABIC
Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad at math.bas.bg>
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
So why should anyone be surprised not to find <@> on the
keyboards
of Arabic typewriters? It is so obviously a feature of the Roman
alphabet, and that only as used for English, as one of your
Hungarian
correspondents points out.
*****************************************
ARMENIAN
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:59:30 +0500
From: "Arthur" <plastic at freenet.am>
I really don't know the word for @ sign in Armenian. Internet is
quite new
to us (only something about 5 years for most of the users, not
professionals).
We have a discussion group where the problems of Internet
terminolgy are
discussed. You can find it at news.freenet.am.
I know a Russian word for it: "sobachka", as you use Russian much
in
Armenia.
Arthur,
http://www.plasticsurgery.am
Land and Culture Organization,
http://www.lcousa.org
*******************************************
BULGARIAN
1. Thu, 06 Mar 1997 10:32:39 +0000
From: Vesselin Bontchev <bontchev at complex.is>
I see that you are missing the Bulgarian name. :-) In Bulgarian
we call
it "maimunsko a" - monkey's a.
Regards,
Vesselin
-
Vesselin Vladimirov Bontchev,
e-mail: bontchev at complex.is
2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:17:37 +0300
From: Ivan A Derzhanski <iad at math.bas.bg>
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
In Bulgarian the names used are, in descending order of
frequency, _majmunsko <a>_ `monkey <a>', _majmunka_ `little
monkey'
and _majmuna_ `monkey, ape'; and one of my acquaintances tells a
story
about a female colleague of his who became the hit of the party
by stating her email address as _Petrova, majmuna_ (which means
literally `Petrova, an ape', though intended to mean `my user
name
is simply my surname, then you write an <@> and the domain, which
is the same as yours'). (Surname changed to protect the
innocent.)
Ivan A Derzhanski
<http://www.math.bas.bg/~iad/>
H: cplx Iztok bl 91, 1113 Sofia, Bulgaria
<iad at math.bas.bg>
W: Dept for Math Lx, Inst for Maths & CompSci, Bulg Acad of
Sciences
*****************************************
CANTONESE
I actually haven't heard of anyone to describe the @ in Cantonese
or
Mandarin, we, including our colleagues in Mainland China always
call this
sign in English i.e. 'at'.
Sorry I cannot help in this issue.
Vivien
*****************************************
CROATIAN
1. Sun, 13 Aug 2000 18:46:18 +0200
From: nelson-dedaic at t-online.de (Nelson-Dedaic)
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
I believe I have responded to your query long ago, but I will
still
repeat my answer, since I do not see Croatian among the languages
for
which you have data.
So, in Croatian, the sign @ is called MONKEY. The English word is
used,
and not Croatian. The Croats are usually surprised when I tell
them that
Americans do not call @ the same way they do.
Mirjana N. Dedaic
Georgetown
2. From: Mima <mima at erols.com>
Croats call this symbol: @ (which appears in e-mail addresses)
MONKEY.
When I first heard it, I thought it was originally MAJMUN in
Croatian, and
they just translated it for me (since I live in the U.S.). So,
the next
time I used it as MAJMUN and they laughed at me!
(copied from an old LINGUIST post on 'pseudo-loanwords')
*****************************************
FAROESE
Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aela at int.tele.dk>
The Faroe-islands use the Danish "snabel-a", which you already
know
means "elephants trunk-a". The Faroe Islands has been under
Danish rule
for several centuries now, so the influence is obvious - still
they have
their own language, which I don't know the english name for.
**************************************************
FIJIAN
1. Fri, 25 Aug 2000 11:33:12 -1000
From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesign at is.com.fj>
Bula (greetings) Karen
You have a very interesting project. I do not thing the Fijian
language has got round to giving punctuation marks or
typographical symbols name. I am acquainted with the person who
is in charge of the Fijian Dictionary Project and I will ask him
and get back to you.
Dominic Sansom
Email dom at sansomdesign.com (work)
dom at kaiviti.com (personal)
Fiji News, Forums and Chat http://www.KaiViti.com is worth a look
2. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:51:32 -1000
From: Dominic Sansom <sansomdesign at is.com.fj
I have had a talked to Paul Gerraty (Head of the Fijian
Dictionary project) and he said there is no name for the at
sign,,, sorry.
Is there an English word for it... apart from the "at" sign?
Maybe there should be and international competition (sponsored by
one of the large email companies, seeing as the re-birth of the
"at" sign is because of the explosion of email) to find a proper
name for it. Now that would be a great project.
Let me know what you think
Regards
Dom
ps. Paul Gerraty has said he will look at coining a Fijian word
for the "at"
sign. I'll let you know if he does.
********************************************
FINNISH
Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:22:45 +0300
From: "Raija Solatie" <raija.solatie at kolumbus.fi>
In Finnish we can call the sign @ "miuku mauku". The term is
related to the way of cats' meowing. In Finnish the cats say
"MIAU".
Raija Solatie
Mme Raija Solatie linguiste/Linguist Kaskihara 20 02340 Espoo
Finlande/Finnland
tél./Tel.: +358-9-8136989 e-mail : raija.solatie at kolumbus.fi
http://www.kolumbus.fi/raija.solatie
*****************************************
FRENCH
1. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:17:54 EDT
From: "Annie Désaulniers" <adesauln at hotmail.com>
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
(Canada)
I am French Canadian. I always heard people call this sign: "a"
commercial.
Annie Désaulniers
2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200
From: Rémy Viredaz <remy.viredaz at span.ch>
In French (my language), by contrast, usage is extremely
uncertain.
Most people I know (but they are not computer specialists) have
used
phrases meaning something like "... the sign..., you know" ,
where
"..." indicates a silence, optionally with a sign of the finger
in the
air.
I think "at" is rather common, as are Anglicisms in general in
the
language of computers and Internet.
"Arobas" (various spellings) I have mostly found in normative
sources,
though I did hear it once on TV.
Remy Viredaz
3. Tue, 2 Jun 1998 15:44:31 +0200
From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roelly at magma.cgg.com>
>I'm french and yesterday I spoke half an hour with a Norwegian to make him
>know my e-mail adress. The problem was this particular sign.
>
>He knew only the Norwegian term for it which meant nothing to me !
>He tried to make me see by saying he pressed the keys "AltGr" and "2". But
>as we do not share the same type of keyboards it's ~(tilde) for me !
>
>Moreover I was told when I started computing in 1982 that in french the
name
>for it was "aronde" wich shall be a play on words for "ronde" means round
so
>"aronde" sounds like "a ronde" (round a)
>"aronde" is also a real french word used only in the "queue d'aronde"
>expression meaning a dovetail in joinery businness.
4. Mon, 8 Jun 1998 13:28:16 +0200
From: "ROELLY Guillaume" <roelly at magma.cgg.com>
Another interresting one I translated for you
** The most common term in french seem to be "arobase". I find
"aronde"
quite nice. It means swallow in old french therefor the "queue
d'aronde"
expression in architecture and joinery business.
**I would prefer "nombril" (navel) whitch shall refer to it's
form, it's
central position and the ego. Each and everyone proudly displays
this sign
in the middle of his address...
- ---Message d'origine-----
De : Philippe Mennecier <phm at cimrs1.mnhn.fr>
* : roelly at magma.cgg.com <roelly at magma.cgg.com>
Date : lundi 8 juin 1998 11:32
Objet : @
Le terme le plus courant en français semble être
"arobase". Je
trouve que "aronde" n'est pas mal. Cela dit, il signifie tout
simplement
hirondelle en vieux français, d'o* l'expression queue d'aronde en
architecture et en menuiserie.
Personnellement, je préfèrerais le terme de "nombril",
qui réfère *sa forme, * sa position centrale et * ego. Chacun
arbore fièrement ce signe
au mileu de son adresse...
*****************************************
GEORGIAN
Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:21:29 -0700
From: "Beso Gugushvili" <bpg at clinet.fi>
"kudiani a" = letter 'a' with a tail
beso
*****************************************
GERMAN
1. Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:08:33 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Jochen Ziegenbalg <jochen.ziegenbalg at oe.uni-tuebingen.de>
(Germany)
Just in case the following description is not yet in the list:
In Germany, the @-symbol is occasionally called
"Schweinekringel", which
is probably best translated as "pig-tail" or, maybe, even better
as
"piggy-tail".
Jochen Zieenbalg
2. Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:10:12 +0200
From: Rémy Viredaz <remy.viredaz at span.ch>
(Switzerland)
In German I have always heard Affenschwanz, though from one
groupe of
people working in the same offices, in Switzerland. Your material
would
be consistent with the guess that Klammeraffe is used in Germany
while
Affenschwanz is used in Switzerland. However, things may be more
complicated.
Remy Viredaz
3. Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:40:50 +0200
From: Gregor Erbach <erbach at ftw.at>
(Austria)
I have heard the word "Alphakringel" (alpha-ring) used for the
"@" sign in German, but I don't think it's used very frequently.
Gregor Erbach
*****************************************
GREEK
1. Tue, 15 Sep 1998 14:25:02 +0200
From: "Dr. Michalis Milapides" <mm at enl.auth.gr>
Organization: A.U.Th. - School of English
I don't know whether I can send some additional information about
the term we use in Greece for @.
Lots of people now instead of the English translation use the
term "papaki" which means "duckling".
2. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:04:35 +0100
From: "Wilcox" <andy at wilcox.the.forthnet.gr>
Your Greek informants, perhaps because they are adults, missed
the young Greek's word for "@", which is "pap'aki" = little duck:
p'apia (=duck) + diminutive affix. This is used to refer to the
symbol itself: in reading aloud/dictating an e-mail address,
"sto(n)" etc. can used in just the way that one of your
informants described, though "pap'aki" will also be heard.
andy at wilcox.the.forthnet.gr
andy sto wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr
or
andy pap'aki wilcox tel'ia the tel'ia forthnet tel'ia gr
("dot" is also coming into increasing use in place of "tel'ia")
The most plausible etymology for "at" in English is that, in the
days when invoices were prepared by hand, "@" was used to show
the unit price: so
5 gadgets @ *10 : *50
to be read as
five gadgets at ten pounds, fifty pounds
Andrew Wilcox
3. Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:04:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: alexis at babel.ling.upenn.edu (Alexis Dimitriadis)
Sorry I waited till after your summary to write, but Greek is
usually well represented in the list---as it was in this case,
but you did not get the whole story: When read as part of an
email address the @ sign in Greek would be translated as your
respondents said, but as a symbol on its own I've often heard it
referred to as "aftaki" `little ear' --- seems to be a popular
image crosslinguistically.
(Surely I'm not the only Greek speaker on the list who has
encountered this?)
Alexis
4. Sun, 20 Aug 2000 22:06:25 GMT
From: "Alexander Fatsis" <laotse1976 at hotmail.com>
Regarding its name by Greeks we all now
call it "papaki" which means little duck. "Papia is the name of
the duck and
"-aki" is used to show that something is small. Sometimes is also
called at.
But this now is rare.
5. Wed, 30 Aug 2000 21:58:28 EEST
From: "Costas Gabrielatos" <cgabrielatos at hotmail.com>
I read your intersting summary on '@'. I'd like to correct the
information
on the Greek expression for it, though. I haven't heard anyone
call it by
any possible translation of 'at'. Everybody calls it /pa'paki/,
which
means'duckling'.
Costas Gabrielatos
(Greece)
******************************************
GREENLANDIC
Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:52:58 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aela at int.tele.dk>
I have received an @-version from Greenland. They use the Danish
snabel-a but sometimes translate it directly to Greenlandic:
a-nagguaatsulik (a with elephants trunk).
Andrew Langkjær
Opasia Editorial Staff
Tele Denmark Internet
******************************************
HEBREW
Sun, 13 Aug 2000 06:46:22 -0400
From: Uri Horesh <urih at babel.ling.upenn.edu>
In Hebrew, as I believe it was a few years ago, the most common
name is
"shtrudel". When I sometimes read out an e-mail address and call
it "at", I
often have to clarify and say "shtrudel", so that my interlocutor
will
understand what I'm talking about.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Uri Horesh Graduate Student
265 S 22nd St Apt 1M Department of Linguistics
Philadelphia PA 19103-5566 University of Pennsylvania
USA
Phone: (215) 732-7133 Cell : (215) 205-0668
E-mail: urih at babel.ling.upenn.edu
http://spinoza.tau.ac.il/hci/dep/semitic/horesh.html
ICQ: 50548643
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************
INDIAN LANGUAGES - VARIOUS
(Note: Can anybody verify any of this data? - KSC)
1. Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:28:21 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aela at int.tele.dk>
Urdu : pay, per,may, key uper, key wahan, key yahan
Punjabi : tay, uttay, dey uttay, wich
Pushto : Sar(pronounced as sir), ber ser, pa
Persian : ber ser, sarray, az, ba
Sindhi : may
Hindko : ottaN, vichuN
Pahari : arr, vitcha
Kashmiri : peth, munz
Gujri : maN
2. "Dr. Agrawal" <jhagarwal at bom6.vsnl.net.in>
August 22, 2000 4:42 AM
' @ ' means "at the rate of " (English).
In Hindi, it is "dar se" or "ki dar se"; here 'ki' (Hindi) is
for 'at' (English).
In Tamil, it is "veedam".
Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of '
Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per
kilo.
J.H. Agarwal
Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000.
J.H. Agarwal
21 Aug 2000.
*****************************************
INDONESIAN
Fri, 23 Jul 1999 09:19:37 +0700
From: "Robert W. M. Greaves" <rwmg at hplaw.co.id>
I asked around in my office here in Indonesia and the consensus
among the Indonesian speakers was that in reading or saying
e-mail addresses in Indonesian they would read it as "at". The
most popular name for it was "a keong" (snail a) but "a kurung"
(caged or bracketed a) and "a kura-kura" (turtle a) were also
suggested.
******************************************
KOREAN
Tue, 15 Aug 2000 08:12:24 +0900
From: Á¶Çö¿ì <langhcho at ijnc.inje.ac.kr>
To: <karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw>
It's also called 'golbaengi-pyo', literally meaning 'golbaengi
mark.' The scientific name for 'golbaengi' is written as
'Semisulcospira libertina.' It's completely different from
snails. Spirals are the only common feature between gol-baeng-i
and dal-paeng-i (Lee's).
Hyeon-Woo Cho
langhcho at ijnc.inje.ac.kr
*****************************************
MANDARIN CHINESE
Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:22:23 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andrew_Erik_Langkj=E6r?= <aela at int.tele.dk>
>>From the Danish Embassy in Beijing, China, Wang Mei wrote me the following: @-symbol in Chinese is (Da Yi Ba a) as long tailed a.
andrew
*******************************************
MONGOLIAN
Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:10:39 +0800
From: "MNTC" <ntc at mongol.net>
Organization: Mongolian National Tourism Centre
@ sign is named in Mongolia "buurunhii dotorh aa" - "A in round
circle".
*******************************************
NEPALI
Thu, 24 Aug 2000 13:00:18 +0530
From: viplobp at himalmedia.com
i don't know how they write in other languages but here in nepal
we simply use @ for @
viplob
*****************************************************
NORWEGIAN
Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200
From: "The Ant" <aanta at boreale.se>
I can help you out on the Norwegian word for it in case you don't
already have it. It's "krull-a" which translate as "curled a" in
the same way as you say 'curled hair'
Aanta
*******************************************
OCCITAN
1. Mon, 14 Aug 2000 00:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joan-Frances Blanc <joan-frances.blanc at excite.com>
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
CC: miller.christopher at uqam.ca, list-oc at cco.asso.fr
In Occitan the @ sign is called alabast, which means a little
hook (ala - the first meaning is "wing") at the pack-saddle of a
donkey ("bast"). A local pronounciation arobast (from the
Aveyron-Tarn area) has also given the Frenchj word "arobas". See
for instance the Tresor dou Felibrige by Frederic Mistral.
J F Blanc
For Occitan speakers I'm writing the Occitan version:
Adiu Karen,
En Occitan lo signe "@" se ditz alabast, co qu'e sun croc pichon
penjat al
bast dels ases. Una pronociacion locala (Avairon e Tarn) donet
tamben lo mot frances arobas. Veser per exemple lo Tresor dou
Felibrige.
On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 14:09:21 -0400, Christopher Miller wrote:
> Cossi se sona en oc... ?
> (Enviatz-li vostra responsa a :
> karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
> e pas a ieu nimai a la list-oc...)
> Seria bon que sapia co qu'es l'occitan !
> Chris Miller
2. Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:17:40 +0200
From: "Micheu.Prat" <Micheu.Prat at wanadoo.fr>
Micheu PRAT
9, lèia de Chabanòtas
05 000 Gap / Occitània
Telefòn: 04/92/53/50/73
Telecòpia: 04/92/51/41/63
E.Mail: Micheu.Prat at wanadoo.fr
Gap, divendres, lo 18 d'avost de 2000
Je crois que tu peux mettre ton petit grain de sel dans cette
recherche de
Karen Steffen Chung sur les appélations diverses du symbole "@".
Y aura-t-il un charentais pour oser déclarer comme désignation
officielle
de ce signe "@" le mot "cagouille"?
Je compte sur toi car j'ai trouv* cette terminologie très intér
essante *de nombreux égard:
-le mot cagouille est un trésor du patrimoine linguistique
charentais.
-la forme de l'alabast/arobas ressemble bien aux spires
escargotiques ou
escargotiennes.
-Karen Steffen Chung recherche bien des désignations
dialectales et il est
bon de montrer la dialectalit* de la langue d'oil.
A Dieu siatz
Coralament e amistosament. De còr e d'òc. Micheu
"Pretz, Paratge, Larguesa" Memòria trobadorenca, Occitània
encuei.
3. lo signe "@": arròba
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 14:06:21 +0200
From: Domergue Sumien <d_sumien at club-internet.fr>
Prepausi en occitan "una arròba"
- Ven de l'espanhòl "una arroba" qu'a dos senses (lo signe @, una
unitat
de pes tradicionala).
- Lo catalan a calcat l'espanhòl en disent "una arrova"
(recomandacion
del TermCat). En catalan "arrova" significa dempuèi longtemps
l'unitat
de pes e, per calc de l'espanhòl, significa tanben uèi lo signe
@.
- Lo francés ditz "un arobas", "un arobase", qu'es una adaptacion
mal
compresa del plural espanhòl "la arroba, las arrobas".
Per un còp qu'avèm una solucion latina per designar un simbòl
ligat a
l'auta tecnologia, ne cal profechar.
Mas "arròba" interditz pas d'emplegar de sinonims occitans
eventuals
coma "a comercial / a comerciala", "cagarauleta", etc.
Soi pas convencut per l'ipotèsi "alabast/arobast/arobas".
Domergue Sumien
*****************************************
ROMANIAN
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 15:41:13 +1000
From: Laura Daniliuc <laura.daniliuc at anu.edu.au>
In Romanian, there are the following names for @:
1. Rom "a-rond" = cca English "a-round"
2. Rom "coada de maimuta" = English "monkey tail"
3. Rom "la" = English "at"
Laura & Radu Daniliuc
Australian National University
Faculty of Arts, Department of Linguistics
<laura.daniliuc at anu.edu.au>
*******************************************
SAMI (LAPP)
Sun, 20 Aug 2000 17:09:45 +0200
From: "The Ant" <aanta at boreale.se>
Funny question. :)
Yet in my Sami language and the two i know of - we haven't got a
special word for the @ as of yet ( yes i do think we will create
on in the near future. )
Aanta
*******************************************
SIGN LANGUAGE
1. @ in French Sign Language
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 22:52:49 -0800
From: Nancy Frishberg <nancyf at fishbird.com>
I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics"
in
which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various
punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so
forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this
talk
at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign
Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign
languages
were present.
At that time I invited others to start describing how the
languages
they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on
French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language
(LSF)
for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm,
circling
and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of
@
blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would
in
that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a
postage-stamp).
These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex. I
should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it.
Not
this week, but perhaps soon.
-
Nancy Frishberg +1 650.654.1948 nancyf at fishbird.com
2. @" sign in sign languages
Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:38:46 -0400
From: Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com
Yesterday I posted the following to SLLING-L, the sign language
linguistics
list. So far I have received two replies.
0. My query:
>>>>>
What do signers call the symbol "@" that is used in email
addresses? Are
there different names for it in ASL? What about other signed
languages?
The LINGUIST list has just published a request from a linguist
who keeps a
list of the names for this symbol in forty spoken languages and
who is
trying to update it. I would like to be able to submit data on
sign
languages as well.
<<<<<
1. From Dan Parvaz <dparvaz at unm.edu>, 08/14/2000, 01:27:02 pm:
>>>>>
The ASL signs I've seen (barring the dreaded SEE sign AT) are
either a
fingerspelled A-T or an index finger tracing the shape of the @
as one
would write it. I'm a non-native signer, but for the final
flourish I tend
to twist my wrist in rather than out, which in a right-handed
signer has
the circle going in the opposite direction from the way "@" is
represented
typographically (at least in the Monaco font I'm looking at now).
Stay tuned on LIU (Jordanian SL); there are fewer than 5 deaf
email users
in the country, but they probalby have some way of expressing it.
<<<<<
Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking
about
native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American
Sign
Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of
Jordanian Sign
Language.
2. From Karen Chung (whose edress I do not know) via Nancy
Frishberg <
nancyf at fishbird.com>:
>>>>>
I sent this note directly to Karen Chung (and have received an
acknowledgement). I do count on you to repost relevant items
from
Linguist to SLLING. Meanwhile, I've continued my role as a
respondent on things signish at the Ask-A-Linguist panel. Divvy
up
the service, eh?
"I have been giving a talk for several years about "Air Graphics"
in
which I describe how American Sign Language incorporates various
punctuation marks, non-alphabetic graphics, charts, maps, and so
forth into the language. I recently gave a new version of this
talk
at the 7th international conference on Theoretical Issues in Sign
Language Research, where researchers of more a dozen sign
languages
were present.
"At that time I invited others to start describing how the
languages
they research use similar principles. A colleague who works on
French Sign Language showed me the sign in French Sign Language
(LSF)
for E-MAIL. It uses the A-handshape held over an open palm,
circling
and then landing on the palm. That is, it's a representation of
@
blended with the sign for LETTER (where the dominant hand would
in
that case use index+middle finger extended to tap, as a
postage-stamp).
"These descriptions without gestures are always overly complex.
I
should just put a QT movie up somewhere and let you point to it.
Not
this week, but perhaps soon."
<<<<<
(Nancy, please tell Karen for me that at least one sign linguist
appreciates such descriptions. Text is much more widely
accessible than
animations, and this is a phonological description, while the
best any
movie can do is phonetics.)
The A-handshape referred to would be that of French Sign
Language, which is
a closed fist with the thumb extended in the plane of the palm,
like the
USA "hitchhiking" or "thumbs up" handshape. "QT" would be
QuickTime.
- Mark
Mark A. Mandel : Dragon Systems, a Lernout & Hauspie company
Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com : Senior Linguist
320 Nevada St., Newton, MA 02460, USA : http://www.dragonsys.com
3. Dan Parvaz <dparvaz at unm.edu>
To: Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com
CC: karchung <karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw>, Nancy Frishberg
<nancyf at fishbird.com>
> Dan tells me that he is a non-native signer of LIU and is asking about
> native Jordanian signers who use email. BTW, "ASL" = American Sign
> Language, and "LIU" presumably stands for the Arabic name of Jordanian Sign
> Language.
Yup. LIU = lughat ul-ishaarat il-urduniyya, "the language of the
sign the
Jordanian" :-) I'm still waiting for a response.
Dan.
DAN PARVAZ -- Geek-in-Residence
University of New Mexico Linguistics Dept
dparvaz@{unm.edu,lanl.gov} 505.480.9638
4. Mark_Mandel at dragonsys.com
"victoria nyst" <victorianyst at hotmail.com>
In SL of the Netherlands (NGT)the sign for the @ symbol is
related to the
Dutch word for the symbol, which is "monkey tail" (=apestaartje).
The NGT
sign for @ (as I have seen it being used)is MONKEY: two cupped B
hands
scratch the upper torso. Do you want to have an exact
descsription, a
transcription or a picture?
Victoria Nyst, University of Amsterdam
***************************************
SPANISH and CATALAN
1. Spanish and Catalan usage has become much more fixed. At the
time of your first survey, "arroba" was a bit purist and most
people just said "a" or "el signo a", but these days "arroba" is
universal.
Colin Whiteley, cwhiteley at tycoint.com
2. Mon, 4 Sep 2000 08:49:54 +0700
From: "Peter Malling" <malling at asia.dk>
One more about @. One person wrote the following to me:
The sign @ is an old Spanish sign for one "Arroba", a measurement
for 25 libras or pound. (11,502 kg in Kastillia, 10.4 kg in
Katalunia, 12.5 kg in Aragonia).
Hence, in Spanish it's called "Arroba".
Peter.
***************************************
SLOVENE
Thu, 11 Dec 1997 21:09:32 +0100
From: Andrej Dvorsak <andrej.Dvorsak at guest.arnes.si>
To: karchung at ccms.ntu.edu.tw
Subject: @
@ sign is called in slovene language "afna" means an ape or
monkey.
Andrej Dvorsak
*****************************************
TAGALOG
Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:53:10 +0800
From: staff at vasia.com
In Tagalog it is also called "at" sign.
Vasia Staff
******************************************
TAJIKI, FARSI, DARI
1. In Tajiki (Persian, Dari, Farsi) the sign @ (at) is call bah
which means at.
Tojik
2. Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:54:28 -0500
From: Ben Bagheri <ben at persianoutpost.com>
Thanks for visiting http://www.PersianOutpost.com.
I don't think your question applies to "Persian" language since
the
language uses a derivative of Arabic alphabet. The @ sign is used
in
Western languages that use their common alphabet (I think
linguists call
them roman languages).
I have not lived inside of Iran for 18 years but I heard that the
recent
popularity and advancements of the Internet in the country has
forced
people to use and refer to the commercial at sign (@). Apparently
most
people who have to somehow use the @ sign, call it "at" (as do
English
speakers) and some people use the Persian word "dar" which
translates
literally to the English word "at".
******************************************
TAMIL
1. Mon, 31 Aug 1998 08:55:36 +0800
From: User <umayal at pacific.net.sg>
@ in tamil means il (romanised tamil)
for example umayal at pacific.net.sg - my address - will be
written as
pacific.net.sg il umayal
i.e. tamil il should come after the server's name pacific.net
and
before the person's name.
hope i have made it clear.
sankaralingam
2. In Tamil, it is "veedam".
Both, "dar se" and "veedam" mean ' at the rate of '
Example : I purchased mangoes "at the rate" of Rupees 10 per
kilo.
J.H. Agarwal
Dallas / USA, 22 Aug 2000.
J.H. Agarwal
21 Aug 2000.
***************************************
TIBETAN
Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:02:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Haig <gizard at xanatoo.cyborganic.com>
> karchung: ...Is there a special name for @ in Tibetan?...
Uh, no. Actually the Tibetans here in Dharamsala have been known
to read
email address by saying "karchung at the rate of ccms..." since
they only
know the @ sign as something used in accounting or such.
Tibetans tend to just use the English version of tech words.
.d
***************************************
TURKISH
Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:22:02 +0300
From: "Sinan Oymaci" <sinanoym at triosh.com>
There is no special meaning for @ sign in Turkish. We call it
"et". We use
the meaning from English.
Sinan Oymaci
e-mail: sinanoym at triosh.com
***************************************
VIETNAMESE
Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:55:49 +0700
From: "Peter Malling" <malling at asia.dk>
In Vietnam it's called a circle-A.
***************************************
@ WEB PAGES and ARTICLES ONLINE (certain to be incomplete)
http://art-bin.com/art/asignoftimes.html
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~kit/lowly@.html
http://www.universalshape.com/
http://home.bluemarble.net/~langmin/@name.htm
http://news.freenet.am/cgi-bin/dnewsweb?cmd=article&group=am.comp.terms&item=376&utag=
http://www.hotwired.com/hardwired/wiredstyle/pickingbrains/index.html
http://www.herodios.com/herron_tc/atsign.html
http://users.cybercity.dk/~ccc25414/Snabel.htm
http://www.quinion.com/words/articles/whereat.htm
http://www.netsurf.ch/arobas.html
http://home.t-online.de/home/hanno_kuehnert/atengli.htm
In German:
http://home.t-online.de/home/076642735-0001/klaffe.htm
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