13.2053, Sum: Tense and Lax i

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LINGUIST List:  Vol-13-2053. Thu Aug 8 2002. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 13.2053, Sum: Tense and Lax i

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=================================Directory=================================

1)
Date:  Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:14:44 -0400 (EDT)
From:  "Carol L. Tenny" <tenny at linguist.org>
Subject:  Tense and lax i

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Tue, 6 Aug 2002 20:14:44 -0400 (EDT)
From:  "Carol L. Tenny" <tenny at linguist.org>
Subject:  Tense and lax i

Sum: Tense and lax i


Quite a few months ago (Linguist 13.236) I posted this question about
tense and lax i:


   I discovered to my surprise today that my Intro Linguistics students
   overwhelmingly pronounce the vowel in the second syllable of words like
   "lining" and "something" with a lax i (like in "pill"), while I always
   pronounced it with a tense i, like in "ring". Is there some dialectal
   variation I don't know about here? or am I crazy?

   Of course this is Pittsburgh where the lax i has many conquests, where
   "Steeler" is pronounced like "still" rather than "kneel". But they weren't
   all Pittsburghers.

   I would welcome any insights.

   Carol Tenny

   --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to the many people who responded and apologies for the long hiatus
between posting the question and the answers.


I have posted the replies I received below. I tried to group them into
distinct categories, but would up quite baffled. There was
overwhelming agreement that the lax vowel was the common, attested
vowel, and was to be expected. There were a few who said their
pronunciation was similar to mine.  Some said I must be mistaken about
what vowel I use. I might indeed; I freely confess to being
phonetically-challenged, although I am sure I do not use the same
vowel in 'sin' and 'sing'. Some replies gave me quite interesting
insights into dialectal variation in English, which I shall entertain
my Intro students with subsequently; they always seem to relate better
to linguistics when they see how it applies to what is right around
them.There were other entertaining comments as well. I share them all
with you below:

*****************************************************************************
*
	From:  Benjamin Bruening <bruening at UDel.Edu>


   Dear Carol,

   Since I pronounce this vowel like you do, I was very surprised in
   TA-ing a "Dialects of English" class at Harvard to find that all the
   students and the professor pronounced it as a lax vowel, and in fact
   the readings that we were using gave the "official" phonetic
   transcription of the suffix -ing as a lax vowel.  I think that you
   and I are in the minority (I'm from Utah, but I haven't checked with
   family members to see how they pronounce it; it is interesting that
   Utah is like Pittsburgh in merging tense and lax vowels before /l/:
   hill and heel are homonyms for me, as are all such pairs, so there
   can't be any relation between -ing and the merger of these vowels in
   such contexts).

   Best,

   Benjamin

   --
   Benjamin Bruening
   Dept of Linguistics
   University of Delaware
   Newark, DE 19711
   (302) 831-4096




*****************************************************************************
*

	 From:  Bart Mathias <mathias at hawaii.edu>

   This is probably not related (since you are interested in an unaccented
   syllable), but it reminds me of a poll I took of the small audience (20?)
   at my first graduate paper presentation in 1962.  I wanted to know whether
   people felt they pronounced "king" with the vowel of "kin," as I had seen
   it transcribed, or with the vowel I felt I used, that of "keen."  I also
   checked whether they thought the vowels in "leg" and "vague" were the
   same, and if so, was it the vowel of "wreck" or "rake."  The
   majority went with
   "kin" and "wreck," and when I mentioned that I like "keen" and "rake,"
   they wanted to know if I was Mexican or something. (My formative years were
   California, Bay Area, with a mother of Oregonian parents and an upstate
   New York father.)

   As you no doubt know (in later years I saw this discussed in the
   literature once or twice), there can't be a /I/ ~= /i(y)/ distinction
   before /N/ in English.  My survey was related to what I see as analogous
   phenomena in Old Japanese.

   Bart Mathias


*****************************************************************************
*

	 From:   "A.F. GUPTA" <engafg at ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK>



   This one is quite baffling to a Brit!

   In most varieties of English English there is a distinction in
   stressed syllables between the long tense vowel of FLEECE and
   the short lax vowel of KIT (I'm using the lexical sets of Wells 1982).
   [I'll use [i:] and [I] to represent them here]. 'Pill' and 'ring' are both
[I]
   (=KIT).  I am not myself familiar with any variety that puts 'pill' and
   'ring' in different lexical sets -- BTW do you have a minimal pair for
   that distinction???

   In unstressed syllables things are more complicated in British
   English.

   Some dialects distinguishing [I] from schwa in places where other
   dialects don't distinguish them, e.g.

   Lennon (schwa)

   Lenin (schwa for some, [I] for some)

   I don't know if this is an added complication in Pittsburgh to the i/I
   stuff.

   In the happY lexical set (i.e. the second syllable of 'happy'), some
   dialects have a lax [I] and some a tense [i] (though not long -- it's
   arguable whether it's phonemically the same as the FLEECE
   vowel).  This can lead some people having a distinction between:

   taxis -- tense  [i]

   taxes -- lax [I]


   My impression from the students I introduce to phonetics is that
   this is now the norm among younger people from a wide variety of
   regions.  Wells (Vol I: 165f, 257) describes it as a British innovation
   (he calls it 'happY tensing', and sees it as an increasing tendency
   throughout the English-speaking world.  He says it's usual in
   Southern Hemisphere varieties and quotes Kenyon attesting it in
   the US in 1958, though he says that conservative US varieties have
   the lax [I].

   I wouldn't expect 'linING' to be in with 'happY' though -- and I'm
   surprised you EXPECT a tense vowel in it.  Could you be the one
   who has taken tensing very far???

   Anthea

   Anthea Fraser GUPTA : http://www.leeds.ac.uk/english/staff/afg/
   School of English
   University of Leeds
   LEEDS LS2 9JT
   UK

*****************************************************************************
*

	From:   Marc Picard <picard at vax2.concordia.ca>



   Your students belong to the overwhelming majority of anglophones who
   pronounce -ing with a lax /I/. I've been teaching English phonetics ever
   since the Flood and I don't recall ever having heard any of my students
   pronounce words like keen and king with the same vowel. I think if you
   check various textbooks and dictionaries (such as Wells' Pronunciation
   Dictionary or Jones' English Pronouncing Dictionary) that the vowel in
   -ing, whether stressed or not, is inevitably transcribed with the
   semi-high front vowel.

   Marc Picard


*****************************************************************************
*

	From:  gaubin at eve.assumption.edu (George Aubin)


  You might want to check out page 87 of the 3rd edition (1993) of
  Ladefoged's _A Course in Phonetics_, where he maintains that the lax
  [I] is used in American English before velar nasals, as you seem to
  have found with your students. Ladefoged doesn't mention anything
  about dialectical variation here, although, as with most things, as
  you suggest, I would not be surprised to find some S

   George F. Aubin


*****************************************************************************
*

	From:  Daniel Currie Hall <danhall at chass.utoronto.ca>


   Dear Dr. Tenny,


   As for your second query, I can report that I have a lax [I] in the -ing
   of "lining" and "something," and, for that matter, in "ring." Dunno how
   helpful this is, since I don't actually speak any identifiable dialect of
   English, but perhaps some larger pattern will emerge from the responses
   you collect....

   Best regards,

   Daniel Hall
   Department of Linguistics
   University of Toronto




*****************************************************************************
*
	 From:  "Richard Laurent" <laurent28 at hotmail.com>


   Carol, Let's use IPA to disambiguate here. For me at least, there
is no distinction between the vowels in pill [pIl] and ring [rIN]
(where N = eng). Though of course these are both slightly colored by
phonetic environment, the vowel [I] prevails in both. Otherwise, you
must have an extremely sensitive ear. However, your description makes
it sound as though locals are saying "Stiller" [stIl at r] (where @ =
schwa) where the literary dialect has "Steeler [stil at r].  By "tense
i," then, you must mean [i] as in Engl. feel, keen. By "lax i," you
must mean [I], as in Engl. fit, kin. Now there's a distinction worth
teaching. Any contrast between the vowels in pill and ring sounds like
a distinction without a difference. You don't really pronounce ring
"reeng" [riN], do you?
   Hope this helps.

   Richard Laurent


*****************************************************************************
*

	From: "Kurt S. Godden" <kgodden at atl.lmco.com>


   I also universally pronounce the progressive suffix -ing with a lax i.
   Always have.  I grew up in Iowa, but for the last almost 30 years have
   lived in Kansas, Illinois, and Michigan.  (Now in Joisey, by the way.)



   -Kurt Godden
    Advanced Technology Labs
    Lockheed Martin
    Camden, NJ



*****************************************************************************
*
	From:  Laurie Bauer <laurie.bauer at vuw.ac.nz>


   I remember being amazed when some of my students insisted that they
   used /i:/ before eng, since this was clearly contrary to the
   generalisation that the only vowels which can occur before an eng are
   lax. And in fact, I still do not really believe it for most of them
   -- although it is a closer vowel than in a word like _thin_, it
   doesn't have the same range of diaphonic variation as the vowel in
   _seen_. So your Pittsburg students seem very sensible to me, doing in
   unstressed syllables as they do in stressed syllables. Btw, I have an
   English accent, and my students are News Zealanders -- so this isn't
   some local Pittsburg phenomenon!


   Laurie Bauer

   Professor of Linguistics
   School of Linguistics and Applied Language Studies
   Victoria University of Wellington
   PO Box 600
   Wellington
   New Zealand
   www http://www.vuw.ac.nz/lals

*****************************************************************************
*
	From:   "Allan C. Wechsler" <acw at alum.mit.edu>


   I'm not sure I understand your query.  I do not detect any difference
   in my own pronuciation of the last vowel in lining [lajnIN],
   something [s^mTIN], or ring [rIN], (with a glide r, not the IPA
   trill).  By 'tense i' do you mean the vowel of 'mean' [mijn]?  I
   don't think I can ever put that vowel before a word-final [N].  I
   grew up in suburban Detroit.
   --

*****************************************************************************
*
	From:  Larry Trask <larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk>



   OK; I'm baffled.  As far as I know, both 'ring' and 'pill' have the lax /i/
   for all speakers.  Are you saying that you pronounce the first as "reeng",
   with a tense /i:/?  If so, this is a new one on me.

   I come from the Olean area, on the NY state line just north of Pittsburgh,
   and I have a little experience of Pittsburgh speech.  I remember noticing
   the pronunciation of 'greasy' as "grea[z]y", and the merger of the vowels
   of 'cot' and 'caught', both of these being well-documented features of
   western Pennsylvania.  But I don't recall noticing anything like "reeng".
   Is this a Pittsburgh feature?  You seem to be suggesting that it is not.

   >From your remarks, I gather that you have a general rule that the velar
   nasal must be preceded by tense /i:/, and never by lax /i/, even when the
   vowel is unstressed.  If so, this is completely new to me: I've never
   bumped into it before.  But my acquaintance with regional American
   varieties is less than comprehensive.


   Larry Trask
   COGS
   University of Sussex
   Brighton BN1 9QH
   UK

*****************************************************************************
*

	  From:  "Richard A. Wright" <rawright at u.washington.edu>

It's a dialectal thing...you from the West? All of my students are
amazed that even in words like "ring" and "king" I pronounce "ing"
with a (slightly raised) lax vowel. Most transcriptions that I've seen
in fact transcribe it as having a small cap I. So your students may
not be the outlier, you might.

   Richard Wright, Assistant Professor
   University of Washington
   Department of Linguistics
   Box 354340
   Seattle, WA 98195-4340


*****************************************************************************

	 From:   "Todd O'Bryan" <toddobryan at mac.com>

   I think I pronounce "ring" with lax-i (i.e., IPA small capital i), but
   it's kind of hard to tell because of the coloring of both the velar
   nasal and the r. In fact it's hard for me to hear the difference between
   the two even when I concentrate hard to make it.

   Maybe they're doing barred-i in that position. I find that a lot of my
   lax vowels (especially before or after coronals, but also somewhat in
   -ing verbs) are barred-i's where other people have schwas. I also find
   that students often think these are small cap i's.

   Todd



*****************************************************************************
*

	 From:  "Clodfelder, Katri" <kclodfelder at iquest.net>

   Hi Carol,

Regarding the other problem, as a native of Southern Indiana, I find
myself fighting to say Steelers rather than Stillers.  But since we
have so many other speaking issues (arn instead of iron, tar instead
of tire, code instead of cold, row instead of roll, and the list goes
on and on).  Glad to know that there's one area where we don't stand
alone!

   Katri A. Clodfelder
   (grad student in computational linguistics at IU-Bloomington
   kclodfel at indiana.edu)

*****************************************************************************

	From:  Ghil`ad ZUCKERMANN <gz208 at cam.ac.uk>


   Carol

   in singaporean english there is usually no difference between shit and
   sheet / manly bitch and Manly Beach. i shall skip the jokes...

           with very best wishes,

           ghil`ad zuckermann

           http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~gz208/
*****************************************************************************
	 From:  Raphael Mercado HBA <rzmsquared at yahoo.com>


   2)  what surprises me is that you say "ring" with the same vowel as in
   "kneel".  for me--i'm from toronto, canada--these words have two different
   vowels.  i say "ring", "lining" and "something" with a lax /I/ in front of
   the "-ng".  i believe that this pronounciation is widespread, found in
   many different dialects of english.

   raph

*****************************************************************************
         From:
               "Sidney Wood" <sidney.wood at ling.lu.se>

I grew up in SE England and have lax i in words like "something" and
find a tense i there is strange. So who's the odd one out when you
compare two different instances? In the old days a supposed standard
pronunciation would be the norm and everyone else deviant, by
definition, which isn't satisfying and is often insulting. What other
scales could you use?  Conservative/innovative perhaps. But the
answer's not always obvious. For example, some British see linguistic
Americanisms as innovative because they appear now, whereas these
features of English are usually conservative because they were
discarded in British usage a couple of hundred years ago but survived
in North America.

   Best wishes,

   Sidney Wood PhD
   Dept. of Linguistics
   Helgonabacken 12
   223 62 LUND
   Sweden

*****************************************************************************

	 From:  "Roger Lass" <lass at iafrica.com>


This is quite common in many dialects. Look at the tongue
configuration: the raised vowel is a response to the high tongue
position for a velar closure. There is probably a similar effect
before stops as well, but much harder to hear because of the quick
closure.

Many southern & S Midland US dialects have a similar if not identical
response for /g/: diphthongisation of short vowels by epenthesis of a
high vowel agreeing in backness: e.g. [ei] in 'leg', and the back
counterpart in 'dog'.

   RL
*****************************************************************************

	  From:  Toby Paff <tobypaff at Princeton.EDU>

   Carol,

   Two observations.

   1/ the 'ng' on the gerund in many American dialects is a completely
   'learned' phenomenon and in fact, many of us (I am original a nondescript
   Midwesterner) pronounced it with a lax 'i' followed by an 'n'; hence,
   "somethin'" and "talkin'" (but "sing" vs "sin").  Despite my wasted life
   as a grad student and a 'professional', I still occasionally find myself
   doing that.

   2/ as a long time resident of New Jersey, I have noticed that my
   colleagues from Eastern PA use a rather lax 'e' in words like 'tail' and
   'tale' so that they sound like 'tell' to me.   This is very distinct.

   Just a couple of odd observations.

   Good luck.

   Toby Paff
   tobypaff at Princeton.EDU

*****************************************************************************

	From:   chankey at juno.com


   Yes, there IS a dialectal variation involved, and a fairly complicated
   one.  Like you, I have always heard the "i" before the velar nasal as
   tense, but for example John S. Kenyon, in AMERICAN PRONUNCIATION, always
   transcribed that as [I].  In a lot of American dialects there is what
   Kenneth Pike called "neutralization of the [phonemic] contrast"; in what
   I call West Penn-Ohio idioms, this and other tense-lax contrasts are
   "neutralized" before the sonorants -- most completely before /r/, then
   before the velar nasal, and seemingly erratically before /l/.  For those
   who "have" the fusion, of course, both in Pittsburgh and here in
   Youngtown, Ohio, it is virtually complete.

   My own [originally Pittsburgh] pronunciation distinguishes `steel` and
   `still` but not, say, "ear" and "ir-" [though I can FAKE it] nor "gringo"
   and anything like it.  To do the latter contrast, I and others would have
   to alveolarize the nasal: "grin-go" or "green-go"; some Americans do in
   fact do this latter alveolar thing in trying to avoid "dropping their
   g's":  "'Coleen" and "E-teen" for "calling" and "eating."

   Clyde Hankey
   also:
   cthankey at cc.ysu.edu
   (Retired)


*****************************************************************************

	 From:  "Kathy H." <kaylynnkathy at hotmail.com>

   Dear Carol,

This is a matter of neutralization between the two vowels.  Some
people do make it sound more "tense" while others do make it sound
more "lax".  This is regional.

The variation you mention for "Steeler" is also an example of
neutralization which varies from region to region.

In certain environments, such as before the velar nasal, as well as
before the lateral or a voiceless post-alveolar fricative and other
environments, the distinction between two vowels is lost.  The
environments for neutralization vary from region to region.  I'm a
T.A. for an Introductory Phonetics course, and the one person who had
the most neutralization--I mean, she neutralized "everything"!--was
from Pennsylvania.

I refer you to this website: http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/

It shows where certain types of neutralization take place throughout
the nation.  I think you need to go to "Maps".

I also refer you to Ladefoged (2001). _A Course in Phonetics_, 4th
edition. Orlando: Harcourt College Publishers.  (See pp. 81-82)

   Kathy Hansen



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