13.3329, Sum: Subtraction in Numerals

[LINGUIST List]

LINGUIST List:  Vol-13-3329. Tue Dec 17 2002. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 13.3329, Sum: Subtraction in Numerals

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1)
Date:  Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:07:24 +0100
From:  Ivan A Derzhanski <iad at math.bas.bg>
Subject:  Sum: Subtraction in Numerals

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:07:24 +0100
From:  Ivan A Derzhanski <iad at math.bas.bg>
Subject:  Sum: Subtraction in Numerals

A fortnight and a day ago, in (Linguist 13.3102), I asked:

> In English the number 19 is called _nineteen_ `9 and 10'.
>
> In Hindi 19 is <unnIs> `1 to 20', but 18 is <aThArah> `8 and 10'.

[Latin draws the line between 17 and 18, Yoruba between 14 and 15.]

> In what other places do languages draw the line?  For instance, is
> there a language where 17 is `3 to 20', but 16 is `6 and 10'?  How
> about one in which 16 is `4 to 20', but 15 is `5 and 10'?

Adam Werle <werle at olypen.com>
C.A.M. Williams <camw3 at hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Ece Wayne <linguist_ics at hotmail.com>
Hannele Nicholson <hannele at ling.ed.ac.uk>
John Lawler <jlawler at umich.edu>
John Lynch <lynch_j at VANUATU.USP.AC.FJ>
Keira Gebbie Ballantyne <ballanty at hawaii.edu>
Mark Chamberlin <malichii at mail.com>
Martin Weikmann <weikmann at gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at>
Rémy Viredaz <remy.viredaz at bluewin.ch>
Yiwola Awoyale <awoyale at unagi.cis.upenn.edu>

wrote to me in the following days.

The responses to the general question (where do languages draw
the line between addition and subtraction?) suggest that if a
language uses subtraction at all, it is likely to do so already
in the first decade, usually starting from 7 (Titan and Buin in
Papua New Guinea, Yapese in Micronesia, etc.) or 8 (the Finnic
branch of the Uralic family, Nuuchahnulth (Nootka) and its close kin).
More examples can be found by analysing the data in Mark Rosenfelder's
collection of numerals up to 10, http://www.zompist.com/numbers.shtml

No one addressed the specific questions (are there languages that
draw the line between 15 and 16? between 16 and 17?), so I conclude
that the existence of such languages is quite unlikely.  However,
some Romance languages do change the pattern in precisely those
places, switching from `ones-teen' to `ten-ones': Spanish _quince_
`15' but `dieciseis' `16', Catalan _setze_ `16' but _disset_ `17'.

- Ivan A Derzhanski             <http://www.math.bas.bg/ml/iad/>

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