LL-L: "Conjunctions" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 21.MAY.1999 (04)

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at simpross.co.za>
Subject: Conjunctions

Hi, all!

Alfred Brothers alfredb at erols.com <mailto:alfredb at erols.com>  referred
to discussions on another
list (German Dialects?) and said:

        '[than' in the Germanic languages (bigger/smaller >than;
        groter/kleiner dan). The question has come up whether there are
        >any Low German (Low Saxon) dialects which use some form of
        Engl. 'than', >Du. 'dan', G. 'denn' instead of the more usual
(?) variants of 'as, als,
>wie'?]

Firstly, I thought the Du. _dan_ correlates with G. _dann_(or _als)
rather than _denn_ which I understand as meaning E. _because_. Is this a
Pennsylvanian 'Dutch' slip? It interests me because I've noticed the same
confusion
amongst German speakers when talking English. For instance:
G. _Ich will nach Hause, denn ich bin muede_ is translated
E. _I want to go home *then I am tired_ AND
G. _Ich will nach Hause, weil ich muede bin_ becomes
E. _I want to go home *while I am tired_

Now to the Lowlandic, Ron.

Alfred says:
[>I've also read that the use of Dutch 'als' in these cases is becoming
        >increasingly more common, at least in colloquial Dutch. Can
anyone
        >comment on this? Apparently Afrikaans and most dialects of
Frisian also
>use only some form of 'as', as well.]

In Afrikaans you would hear _groter/kleiner as_ and _groter/kleiner
dan_.
The _dan_ ones seem to be on the decrease. The examples with the
asterisks 'sound' wrong:
(Julle is groter as hy)
(Julle is groter dan hy*)
(*Julle het dan meer dan ek gekry)
(Jy is vetter as ek) (*Jy is vetter dan ek)
(Hierdie lapgoed is mooier as daardie)
(Hierdie lapgoed is mooier dan daardie)

        [>And finally, are there any Low Saxon/English/Scots/other LL
dialects
        >which use exclusively (or predominantly) forms of 'than' or the
        >conjunction 'that' without the 'th/d' phoneme at the beginning?
For
        >example, colloquial English "bigger 'n life" for "bigger
than..." or "he
>says 'at he's coming" for "he says that...".]

In some speech variants in Afrikaans the /d/ phoneme in _dat_ becomes a
/l/ as in:
(Hy sê lat hy eers met sy ma daaroor wil praat)
(Sy het gesê lat sy wel gaan kom)

Cheers!
Elsie Zinsser

----------

From: "Ian James Parsley" <I.J.Parsley at newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Conjunctions

All,

In Ulster "nor" is still very much in use, in fact right across the
province (it is characteristic of Belfast speech). Another
conjunction, "bis" or "biz", is used depending on the context: so,
for example, the English sentence:

German is more closely related to English than Danish

is unclear - is 1) German more closely related to English than it is
to Danish, or 2) is it more closely related to Danish than English
is? In Ulster-Scots this is solved:

1) German wud be nicher tae Inglis nor Danis (i.e. than it is to Danish)
2) German wud be nicher tae Inglis bis Danis (i.e. than Danish is).

A little subtlety which I find most useful.

As for "at", I believe that's of Scandinavian origin. It's difficult
to tell which one's used in Ulster really, since initial TH is
rendered like a glottal stop and is often difficult to hear at all. I
write "at", as that seems the traditional form.

Yours aye,
--------
Ian.

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