LL-L: "Phonology" LOWLANDS-L, 17.NOV.1999 (02) [D/E]

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From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject:  LL-L: "Phonology" LOWLANDS-L, 16.NOV.1999 (04) [E]

> From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
> Subject:  Phonology
>
> As regards Dutch "v" I have not been convinced by the previous attempts to
> describe it, and for me it's a softened /v/ rather than a softened /f/. It
> seems to me that the essence of it is that it starts unvoiced and ends
> voiced, ie something like English "f" gliding to "v". I found support for
> this in Shetter's "Introduction to Dutch" where he writes for "v":
> "Resembles Eng. "v" except that the voicing does not begin immediately; it
> thus stands between Eng. "v" and Dutch "f"." You get the sound (I think)
if
> you put your teeth and lips in the position to say Eng "f" and then
(without
> forcing it) say "v".

>From my __old__ schoolbook:
Dr. E; Blancquaert, Praktische uitspraakleer van de Nederlandse taal,
__1964__, de sikkel, Antwerpen, 281 pp. (written for Belgians !!!!)

p. 115:

De __f__ wordt in de spelling voorgesteld met __f__, __ff_- en in sommige
vreemde woorden vroeger ook met __ph__ (thans __f__) ....... de __v__ van
veertig en vijftig wordt als __f__ uitgesproken als er geen namen van
eenheden aan voorafgaan....

De __v__ wordt steeds met __v__ gespeld, behalve in de verbinding __wr__,
waar de __w__ ook als __v__ wordt uitgesproken; omgekeerd stelt de __v__ van
de spelling steeds de uitspraak __v__ voor, behalve in veertig en vijftig...

De __f__ wordt gearticuleerd met de binnenrand van de gespannen onderlip
tegen de bovensnijtanden, zo aangeleund dat de luchtstroom slechts door een
klein gleufje midden in de onderlip kan worden geperst; de tong blijft
neutraal en de stembanden trillen niet; derhalve is de __f__ een gespannen,
stem__loze__, labio-dentale spirans

Met dezelfde orgaanopstelling, maar met enigszins geringer spanning, en met
trillingen van de stembanden, waarvan men duidelijk de weerslag voelt op de
meetrillende onderlip, wordt de __v__ gearticuleerd; deze is dus een
__on__gespannen, stem__hebbende__, labio-dentale spirans.

De __v__ is aan het begin van woorden, vooral in Noord-Nederland, op weg om
een __f__ te worden. De stem is reeds grotendeels verdwenen; spanning als
voor een __f__ doet voorlopig nog meer bepaaldelijk aan Friese of Joodse
afkomst denken, maar ook talrijke andere Noord-Nederlanders komen de __f__
reeds zeer nabij...

Regards,
Roger

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From: $ Elsie Zinsser [ezinsser at simpross.co.za]
Subject:  LL-L: "Phonology" LOWLANDS-L, 16.NOV.1999 (07) [E]

Haai julle!

Gustaaf asked about the 'v' and the 'w':

 >On the same subject, is the 'v' in Dutch unique, or does this
pronunciation exist in other languages as well?  What >about Afrikaans?

-The /v/ and the /f/ are pronounced the same in Afrikaans, namely as a
voiced labio-dental fricative.
-The /w/ is pronounced [v] as in German _Wasser_ and not as the English
[w] as in _William_ ; _win_.
-In Afrikaans spelling the /f/ appears seldom in word beginnings unless
it is a loan word (_fibriose_) and the /v/ seldom appears in the middle
of a word. You'll find it in _koevoet_ but not in _koffie_ and in
_gavot_ but not in _gaaf_. They are all pronounced [f]

Groete!

Elsie Zinsser

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject:  Phonology

Haai, Elsie!

You wrote:

> -The /v/ and the /f/ are pronounced the same in Afrikaans, namely as a
> voiced labio-dental fricative.

I assume you really meant to say "voiceless labio-dental frivative," namely
[f].  Not?

Groete,

Reinhard/Ron

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