LL-L: "Etymology" (was "Little words") [E/S] LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.1999 (01)

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From: Edwin Michael Alexander [edsells at wwwebcity.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Little words" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 04.OCT.1999 (01)

At 11:52 AM 10/04/99 -0700, Ian James Parsley wrote:

>I didn't make myself particularly clear the first time - yes, Ed is right,
>it is more than possible given the various cognates that "stay" *originally*
>meant "reside", and this permanent meaning was lost in southern England
>rather than gained in the North.

While I'm at it, "reside" < IE "sed" > L "sedere" and > E "sit".  Thus
whether one "stays" or "resides" in a place is somewhat qualitative:  one
is more likely to remain in a place longer if offered a "seat".

Ed Alexander
JAG REALTY INC.
80 Jones Street Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8R 1Y1
Pager: 905-545-0177  Fax: 905-525-6671 Email: edsells at wwwebcity.com
Jag Realty Inc.: http://www.deerhurst.com/jag/
Ontario Ultra Series:  http://www.connection.com/~esmond/ouser.html
Burlington Runners Club: http://www.deerhurst.com/brc/

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
Subject:  "Little words"

> From: John M. Tait [jmtait at altavista.net]
> Subject: LL-L: "Little words" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 03.OCT.1999 (03)
>
> Is there a justification for categorising 'stay' as SSE and 'bide' as
> Scots? The former has a different pronunciation in Scots from English
> ('stey', [st at i], SSE [ste:] - the fact that the Scots pronunciation looks
> more like an RP one is pure coincidence!). Does 'stay' actually have a
> shorter history in Scots than 'bide' does, or is this an example of the
> tendency to exclude English cognate words wherever a more characteristic
> Scots word will serve?

Examples o the speecially Scots uise o "stey" meanin "bide" is quotit in the
SND as faur back as mid-Veectorian times.

Ye canna dae athoot the word "stey" aathegither in Scots wi hou "bide" winna
dae for it whan it's uized in the sense o "support", e.g. barrel steys
(capacious corsets) &c.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org

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From: Henno Brandsma [Henno.Brandsma at phil.uu.nl]
Subject:  LL-L: etymology (was: little words)

> From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at highbury.fsnet.co.uk]
> Subject: LL-L: "Little words" [E] LOWLANDS-L,  03.OCT.1999 (04)
>
> I didn't make myself particularly clear the first time - yes, Ed is right,
> it is more than possible given the various cognates that "stay" *originally*

> meant "reside", and this permanent meaning was lost in southern England
> rather than gained in the North.
>
> I do wonder about the origins of HG "stehen" (which in MHG is "standan"),
> but that's beyond the scope of the list, methinks!
>
> Best,
> -------------------------------
> Ian James Parsley

On this last matter: one thing that always intrigued me is the double
stems that seem to be involved in both (German) _gehen_ and _stehen_.
This doubleness is also found in Frisian:

German _stehen_, MHG _standan_
West Frisian (standard) _stean_
Old Frisian: stonda and *[sta:n], in texts written as _stan_
Some West Frisian dialects use _stonne_ as conjugated forms of
_stean_, forms that derive from _stonda_.
Saterfrisian has _stounde_ < stonda, while North Frisian has
descendants of both forms.

Moreover Dutch has the noun "stand", next to the verb "staan"
The past tense of _staan_ is _stond_ (sing.)

German _gehen_, MHG ?
West Frisian (standard) _gean_
Old Frisian gunga and *[ga:n], in texts written as _gan_
Some West Frisian dialects (mostly the same as the ones above!) use
_gonne_ as conjugated forms of _gean_, deriving from _gunga_.
Saterfrisian has _gunge_, I cannot recall a North Frisian form right
away..

Again Dutch has a noun "gang" next to the verb _gaan_, and the
past tense of _gaan_ is _ging_ (sing.)

Does anyone know what the Old Germanic and/or Indo-European origin of
these phenomena is?

Henno

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