LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.1999 (03)

Sun Oct 10 00:19:14 UTC 1999

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From: Wilf Ratzburg [Wilf_Ratzburg at bcit.ca]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 09.OCT.1999 (01)

>>In Low Saxon (Low German), and under its influence also in Northern
German
>>dialect, there have been a couple of shifts in the terminology of
'crab'
>and
>>'shrimp'.
>>
>It appears that Lindow also lists 'Granaat' as a western Low Saxon word
 for
>'shrimp.'
>> It appears that Lindow also lists 'Granaat' as a western Low Saxon
word for
>> 'shrimp.'
>
>Thanks for the tip, Reuben.  Yes, indeed, I should have mentioned that,
 had been
>thinking of it only fleetingly when I mentioned the Dutch word.  To us
>"Oosterschen," _Granaat_ is a foreign word.

In our household (my parents and I were born in Bremen), it was ONLY
Granaat, and it referred to the tiny shrimp (as opposed to prawns --
which I don't ever remember seeing while living in Germany). In 1973, my
wife and I, while living and working in Bremen, took a weekend trip to a
small village on the Weser, north of Bremerhaven. Here we watched the
shrimp boats coming in -- the ONLY word used to describe these creatures
was Granaat.

Whenever I've used the term Granaat around other, non-Lowlander,
Germans, I've just been met by confused looks!

Cheers,
Wilf Ratzburg
West Vancouver, BC
Canada
frtzw906 at bcit.bc.ca

----------

From: Wilf Ratzburg [Wilf_Ratzburg at bcit.ca]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 08.OCT.1999 (05)

> "Shrimp" was a replacement for the sake of the "Yank" target
>audience.  In non-American English "shrimp" only refers to the tiny
critters,
>the kind you find in shrimp cocktails, the kind that would fall right
through
>the grill's grate and burn up in about two seconds.  The real word is
"prawn"
>([pro:n] in Australian) for the bigger kind (_Palaemonetes_), the kind
that in
>America tends to be called "jumbo shrimp" lately, "prawn" very rarely
and then
>mostly in "snooty" types of restaurants and gourmet shops.

PRAWN is good Canadian English. Jumbo Shrimp sounds like some kind of a
marketing slogan. Shrimp are small (Granaat <GRIN!>), and prawns are
jumbo.

Cheers,
Wilf Ratzburg
West Vancouver, BC
Canada
frtzw906 at bcit.bc.ca

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Moin, Naver Wilf (both as a Bremer and as a West-Vancouverite)!

Nice to hear from you.  And thanks for the input.

You wrote:

> In our household (my parents and I were born in Bremen), it was ONLY
> Granaat

Wow!  That's interesting!  So the word is used as far east as that, and the
eastern boundary of its use must be somewhere between Bremen and Hamborg/Hamburg
(not that great of a distance), because around the Lower Elbe area we only say
_Krabb(e)_, as far as I know.

> Whenever I've used the term Granaat around other, non-Lowlander,
> Germans, I've just been met by confused looks!

I'm not surprised.  For one thing, most "Easterners" don't get exposed to
western dialects a lot, and there are relatively few of us that bother to learn
to at least read Dutch, our *true* sister language, and therefore would
immediately recognize the word _Granaat_ ([gra'nQ:t]), at least in most
contexts.  What is important also is the fact that there is another word
_Granaat_ meaning 'grenade'.  _Granaat_ 'shrimp' has masculine gender, and
_Granaat_ ([gra'nQ:t]) 'grenade' has feminine gender.  However, the only time
they are distinguished is when they are referred to by the pronouns _he_ ([hEI],
m.) and _se_ ([zEI], f.) respectively.  Otherwise it's _de Granaat_, _een
Granaat_, _'n Granaat_, and plural _(de) Granaten_ for both of them.   There
could be confusion in some context, I should imagine (e.g., _Se hebbt man bloots
'n paar Granaten in't Nett funnen_ 'They only found a few shrimps/grenades in
the net').

> PRAWN is good Canadian English.

And so I noticed on my numerous pig-out weekend tours to Vancouver, Richmond,
Victoria, Nanaimo and other parts of beautiful British Columbia.  (I am
convinced that the quality of food is higher on your side of the border, and the
prices seem lower for the most part, at least when you have US dollars to
spend.)

> Jumbo Shrimp sounds like some kind of a
> marketing slogan.

And I'm sure it is.  US marketers and advertising agencies tend to avoid
"burdening" the American public with foreign words and concepts.  They'd rather
invent their own, especially if this makes the product sound better, and
BIGGER.  I had a good laugh when a few years ago they were advertising what in
Australia is known as "Morton Bay bugs" (sorry, I don't know the Latin name) as
"Australian mini-lobsters."  It's not a lobster at all but some primitive- or
prehistoric-looking crustacean with an ugly head (which is removed before they
enter the stores) and a gray shell, looking like a giant carpet beetle, not very
attractive and edible looking really.  Obviously the "bug" part was unacceptable
to American advertisers, though it doesn't seem to stop Australians from eating
the critters with gusto.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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