LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 17.OCT.1999 (02) [D/E]
Lowlands-L Administrator
sassisch at yahoo.com
Sun Oct 17 18:39:35 UTC 1999
=========================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 17.OCT.1999 (02) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/~sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
=========================================================================
A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
=========================================================================
You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
as message text from the same account to
<listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=========================================================================
From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymolgy" LOWLANDS-L, 15.OCT.1999 (04) [E]
> From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
> Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 14.OCT.1999 (01) [E]
> In (real) Flemish: .........
> 6. Poperinge (as to: Tillie)
> En e so veele zin lik _chèrnoars__ poèt'n
> Hij heeft zoveel zinnen lijk garnalepoten (Hij verandert veel van mening)
The expression I quoted from:Poperinge is apparently widespread:
- East-Flemish, Ghent (Lievevrouw-Coopman, vol 2, 1949, reprint 1974)
GEERNAARD: garnaal
Volksliedje:
Geirrrrrrrrrrrrr- ri - naert!
't Zyn weeral van die grooten;
Zoek ze maar uyt
Al veur ne kluyt,
En zoekt er maer de besten uyt!
Zoek en kies maer uyt,
Zoek en kies maer uyt,
En zoekt er maer de besten uyt!
Tune: "Guerre aux tyrans"...
GEERNAARDSPOOT: garnaalpoot
zooveel zinnen hên als geernaardspooten: zeer veranderlijk zijn van
gedacht
- Brabantish, Antwerp (Vervliet, _1900_, vol. 2)
GERNAAT ... GARNAAT.. garnaal, Fr. crevette ...
Hij heeft zoveel zinnen als 'ne gernaat pooten:
Hij verandert gedurig van gedacht, hij weet niet recht wat hij wil
> Here in the shops, I live in the Antwerp area, one distinguishes between:
> - grijze garnalen (tasty little gray shrimps from the North see, pealed in
> Morocco)
> - roze garnalen (tasteless little white/pink shrimps, I think from
> Bangla-Desh)
> - reuzegarnalen (big size white/pink shrips, size similar to what is
served
> as "räkor" in Sweden)
Some other words (in Dutch or at least Belgian Dutch) for giant shrimps,
are, at least to me, associated with the way they are prepared:
- __gamba's__: not completely pealed, but with the tail still attached, for
holding them while dipping them (cold) in coctail mayonnaise
- __scampi's__: served hot, baked or barbecued in their peal/shell,
eventually left in the peal/shell when served.
Regards,
Roger
>From " 't Periodiekste, ongetwijfeld het meest gelezen krantje van Mortsel
en randgemeenten" of October 12 (Mortsel is the suburb of Antwerp where I
live)
-- Restaurant "de nethe" --
...
-- Diner Romantiek --
Aperitief "Kirr Royal" met hapjes
Extra zacht gekookte zalm met groene limoen of
Sint-Jacobsschelp gevuld met __grijze garnalen__, roze zalm, coquille
St.-Jacques en __scampi__
Heldere bouillon Henri IV
Sorbet
Rundsfiletpure met boeket van zomergroentjes, béarnaisesaus of
In goede boter gebakken zeetong, verrijkt met __grijze garnaal__, kroketjes
of fritten.
IJsroom met meloen of
Drie artisanale kazen.
1.695,- Bfr. p.p.
+ 400 fr. met aangepaste wijnen
(The formation of the words is curious:
filet pure (French) from the rund (Dutch) becomes Rundsfiletpure
and in the "Sint-Jacobssschelp" one finds also a bit of "coquille
St.-Jacques")
(my computer has a tendency to modify IJsroom into Ijsroom,
the "j" shoud also be in capital in correct Dutch, I think)
----------
From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymolgy" LOWLANDS-L, 15.OCT.1999 (04) [E]
> 6. Poperinge (as to: Tillie)
> En e so veele zin lik _chèrnoars__ poèt'n
> Hij heeft zoveel zinnen lijk garnalepoten (Hij verandert veel van mening)
I would like to make one more comment to a previous message.
In "expressions" the original semantics may be lost at a moment.
I guess it was originally:
En __e__ so veele zin lik chèrnoars poèt'n ___e(n)___
Hij __heeft__ zoveel meningen als garnalen poten __hebben__
but it may become by syntactical degradation
Hij heeft zoveel meningen als garnalen poten
and finally
Hij heeft zoveel meningen als garnalenpoten
So he ends with having shrimps legs himself.
Syntactical degradation is, to my feeling, occuring frequently in dialect
notation. One tries to be as phonetical as possible and one looses all
grammatical structure.
Regards,
Roger
Ps: in my previous message: our local magazine is not " 't Periodiekste"
but " 't Periodiekske". Typing is not my best quality.
----------
From: Anja Meyfarth [AMeyfarth at t-online.de]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 14.OCT.1999 (01) [E]
Hi folks,
John Feather wrote:
> I'm not really happy about the suggested connexions between shrimps and
> garnets and pomegranates for the following reasons:
>
> 1. (Cooked) lobsters are red, shrimps are pink. If lobsters were called
> *granaat (etc) it would be more convincing.
Deep Sea shrimps are indeed pink, but not the even smaller ones from the
North Sea. They are red, no doubt about that. It must be a different species.
> 2. It seems unlikely that pomegranates or garnets were familiar objects to
> the earliest catchers, boilers, eaters and namers of shrimps.
Well, for the islands of North Frisia I`m not convinced of your hypothesis.
I don`t know how old the name "Granat" for North Sea shrimps really is, but
the people of those mentioned islands were quite wealthy in the 17th and 18th
century. They will have known the stones not only by name but by sight, too.
The connection to pomegranates is an indirect one, I think. I ate them once
a couple of years ago in Egypt. That what you get to eat looks very similar to
the gems, same colour and so.
That`s all, folks,
Anja
==================================END======================================
* Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
* Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
type of format, in your submissions
=========================================================================
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list