LL-L: "Phonetics" [E/S] LOWLANDS-L, 30.SEP.1999 (06)

Thu Sep 30 23:27:41 UTC 1999

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From: John M. Tait [jmtait at altavista.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Phonetics" [S] LOWLANDS-L, 28.SEP.1999 (02)

Andy wrate:

>The wittins anent whit A wrat abuin comes fae The Edinburgh History,
>Chaipter Elieven bi Paul Johnston 'Regional Variation'. blads 433ff.

Richt - got ye.
>
>The 'i' A descrieve is for ordinar in wirds o the 'Bit' cless. Descendit
>fae aulder Scots 'i' as descrieved abuin.
>
>The beuk says that insular Scots haes a 'split-BIT pattern' ane is [epsilon
>wi twa wee dots abuin hit] tae [e wi twa wee dots abuin hit] 'short' in aa
>poseitions.
>The tither is [Rams Horns wi twa wee dots abuin hit]. Maist mainland
>Shetland byleids(includin Lerwick) haes it afore baith labials an velars,
>but the tither byleids haes it alanerlie afore labials, wi velars bein a
>raisin environ, haein 'i' as descrievit abuin.

Weel, faur be it frae me ti threip fornenst the experts, but I whiles
wonder gin some o the differs interpretit bi Johnston is actually different
transcribers transcriptions o the same soonds! At onie rate, maist o his
wittins seems ti come frae LSS vol. 3, an different transcribers wis
responsible for workin on different pairts o Shetland; an it leuks ti me as
gin some o thaim wis faur mair glig ti screive doun phonetic details nor
ithers wis. On the ither haund, some o Johnston's references is til a wark
o his ain, so maybe he kens somethin I dinna - or he's juist mair fasht wi
phonetic detail at my dowf lugs canna hear.

Oniewey, gin ye leuk at the section for Hamnavoe (LSS (3) p. 3) - my ain
dialect, gie or tak a hauf-mile - ye can see at the transcriber haes uised
the twa hornies wi the twa dots abuin (that's the centralisation diacritic)
for the soond in the group 'bit, foot, nut, put, sit, what, wit' (English
spellins). Ti my dowf lugs, this soond is awfu like the shewa soond in a
word like 'the' in SSE. I wad say at this soond wad be best representit bi
[3] - like the transcribers duis for some ither Shetland dialects, e.g.
North Yell, Papa Stour, Waas ('Walls') an Foula. I wonder gin the Hamnavoe
transcriber haes juist uised a different symbol - aiblins a slichtly mair
accurate ane - for recordin whit is essentially a [3] soond; or on the
ither haund Hamnavoe mibbie says it a puckle faurer back nor thon ither
places dis. It's no muckle different, oniewey. Seein at the /t/ at this is
afore is naither a labial nor a velar, I canna see whit wey Johnston is
sayin at it kythes afore labials an velars; but nae dout gin he wis here he
coud lat's ken.

Again in Hamnavoe, the e wi twa dots abuin, follaed bi a lowerin sign
(upside-doon T) is uised for the group: buzz, glove, live, sieve, Liz, was.
Thir words haes the soond at I think on as IPA dotless i, SAMPA [I], an I
see at maist o the transcribers for ither airts o Shetland haes uised the
IPA equeivalent o [I] in thir words. Again, the'r no muckle differ.

For practical purposes, than, ye coud say at the twa hornies wi dots abuin
is awfu like [3], but aiblins faurer back, an the _e_ wi twa dots abuin
awfu like [I]! I dinna see thon squiggly _i_ in the Shetland pairts o LSS.
I tak it it's no juist anither wey o writin [I]?

Thare is a split in the pronunciation o BIT class words in Shetlandic, but
I dinna think it's as complicate as Johnston maks oot. In my dialect - an I
think maist Mainland anes oniewey is seimilar - thay hae ae allophone -
approx. [3] - afore unvyced stops an anither allophone - approx. [I] -
afore vyced anes; for ensample:

[3] lip, bit, lick
[I] lib, bid, rig

The vyced/unvyced split here seems awfu obvious ti me - I canna see whaur
labial an velar comes intil it ava - unless the'r a tendency for [3] ti be
sayed faurer back afore velars, giein rise ti thon twa-horned thingie.

Afore /l/ the'r mair regional variation, some dialects haein the [3]
allophone, an some the [I] ane. The word _hill_, for ensample, I say as
[h3l], but somebody frae, say, Whalsay wad say [hIl]. Again, I dinna ken
whit wey Johnston disna mention this whan he's speakin aboot _hill_
oniewey. Aiblins it's cause he taks the [I] pronunciation ti be the normal
ane - cause it's maist like the English - an sae only comments on the [3] ane.

Ti me, the hail vyced/unvyced split maks a system - effectin ither vowels,
no juist /I/ - at I caa 'saft mutation'. Phonetic differs atween the
allophones i different airts an circumstances is peripheral ti this system,
an, unless the system is recognised first - an it isna in onie academic
traetment o Shetlandic at I'm awaur o - the wittins gets awfu confuisin.

>
>>>IPA 326 'Reversed Epsilon' Also occurs in Insular Scots.
>
>>Again, coud ye gie's onie ensamples? Is this whit's shawn bi [3] in SAMPA?
>
>Ay.
>
>In the 'BIT cless' "pill' an hill" in Shetland. North Ronaldsay haes this
>in the 'BET cless'.

In my dialect, an maist o Shetland as faur's I ken, _pill_ disna hae this
vowel ava - it's sayed 'peel' [pil]. It's the same i the NE here, tae.
>
>>IPA  313 `Reversed Cursive A' An Insular Scots pronunciation of <oa> as in
>>'coat'. Also an Ulster Scots (County Down) rendering of <au>.
>
>In Shetlandic, 'coat' is said mair or less like 'cot' in Scots. Is this
>character no the same ane at's shawn bi [Q] in SAMPA? Tho I wad hae thocht
>the soond in Shetlandic <cot>=<coat> wis mair like [O] - i.e. no as open as
>[Q].

I wis speakin haivers here. Coorse, in maist dialects o Scots, _cot_ is
sayed [kot], ti rhyme wi _boat_. Whit I _meant_ ti say wis, at in
Shetlandic, _coat_ is said mair or less like _cot_ is in SSE - no in Scots.

In ither words, whaurbyes in maist Scots dialects baith _cot_ an _coat_
soonds like SSE _coat_, in Shetlandic thay baith soond like SSE _cot_.

John.

----------

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
Subject: "Phonetics"

> From: Dr James M Scobbie [j.scobbie at sls.qmced.ac.uk]
> Subject: LL-L: "Phonetics" [S] LOWLANDS-L, 29.SEP.1999 (02)
>
> Long time no post. In Glasgow English (both middle and working class)
> the /u/ is very central (in terms of F2) whereas /o/ (and /open-o/)
> are pretty back. Also, /u/ is not as high a vowel (in terms of F1) as
> either /i/ or /o/. Impressionistically, I've heard even lower and
> fronter /u/ from other speakers that are almost a rounded retracted /e/.
> In Scots, is the central /u/ usually pretty high? Is the lowered /u/
> a glaswegian thing, a Scottish English thing (rather than Scots) or
> is it connected a merger of /I/ and /u/ in some words (meaning
> that "good" and "bid" rhyme?
>
I can really only speak for my own dialect of Scots (East Lothian, near the
Midlothian border), and I don't really speak Scottish English, just my own
English with a somewhat Scottish accent.

So in my dialect:

Central /u/ - this is pretty high, but not quite as high as /i/.

Central /o/ - this is lower than the central /u/.

/u/, /o/, /Q/ seem to me to form an evenly-spaced sequence, getting
progressively lower and hollower in the tongue (the middle of the tongue is
raised to touch the soft palette laterally, the tip pressed behind the lower
teeth to give a slight upward turn, but the jaw only lowers a little way
with each, and all are are about equally rounded (i.e. slightly rounded).

There's no /C/ (open "o").

"Guid" is pronounced [gId], bid is pronounced [b3d], with "3" representing
Aiken's vowel.

Anent things not in my dialect, so don't take my word for them:

I think the lowered /u/ is fairly characteristic of the Borders (e.g.
Hawick) English speakers who don't speak Scots (the Scots speakers'
equivalent is a clearer, less nasal sound), as well as Glasgow, but I'm not
sure. In my area it's used when deliberately trying to sound ignorant for
comic effect.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org

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