LL-L: "Names" LOWLANDS-L, 13.AUG.2000 (06) [D/E/French]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Sun Aug 13 20:11:26 UTC 2000
======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 13.AUG.2000 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
=======================================================================
From: "Ian James Parsley" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Names" (was "Standardization") LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.2000 (01)
[E]
Henry wrote:
>
> >What I have a problem with btw, is foreigners (and most Dutch
people as
> > well) calling the Netherlands Holland. <
I don't see why it should be a major problem that foreigners fail to
recognize that distinction, if that's what your own countryfolk go
around telling them. Even at football matches chants of 'Holland' and
scarves with 'Holland' are prevalent.
It happens here also. Once I was explaining Northern Ireland's new
phone numbers to a German, who said "so, I dial 44 for England and
then 28 for Northern Ireland"!!
A Scottish Gaelic activist I met in South Tyrol got it right: she said
she didn't mind foreigners getting it wrong (referring also to a
leaflet which said the dialing code for "England" was 44), it was when
the English got it wrong she got annoyed!!
Best wishes,
Ian.
----------
From: Roger Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: Names (Belgium), was Re: LL-L: "Historical linguistics"
A couple of days ago I quoted "Des Roches" for the significance of the name
"Belgium" at the end of the 18th century:
>>>>> 1782, Nouveau dictionnaire françois-flamand, xxiv + 667 pp, p. 53:
Belge, s. m. Een Nederlander
Belgique, adj. Nederlandsch
12 vendémiaire, l'an 10, Nieuw Nederduytsch en Fransch Woórden-boek, 738
pp, p. 67:
Belge, s.m. Nederlander, Belge s.m.
Belgen-land, s.n. La Belgique, s.f.
Belgen-landsch, adj. Belgique<<<<<
and a text from the Kingdom of the Netherlands in 1830, a few weeks before
the split-up of the realm:
>>>>> N° 58 Proclamatie van den 5den September 1830 etc.
Wij WILLEM, ..., Koning der Nederlanden...
Nous GUILLAUME,..., Roi des Pays-Bas
de Staten-Generaal, die,..., het geheele _Nederlandsche_ volk
vertegenwoordigen...
les Etats-Généraux qui,..., représentant tout le peuple _Belge_...<<<<<
There is more than that, for explaining why and how "Belgium" became the
name of this country.
I will not go back to Caesar, since his "Belgium" was extending up to the
Northern suburbs of Paris, nor to the renaissance habitude to re-use Roman
idioms, leading to the famous "Leo Belgicus" maps, with North and South
geographically united.
Altogether in the South, the different territories maintained their
identity and resisted strongly to all unification attempts. The king (of
Spain) / emperor of Austria listed his titles individually: "Duke of
Brabant, Duke of Limburg, Count of Flanders, etc., etc.", eventually
completed with the title "Duke of Lotharingia", which once referred to a
territory much larger than Belgium (and never included Flanders except for
the part "Rijks-Vlaanderen").
History writers nowadays use "__De Habsburgse Nederlanden__" for the
combined Southern Netherlandic territories in the period 1482-1795, e.g.:
E. Aerts, and others, De centrale overheidsinstellingen van de __Habsburgse
Nederlanden__ (1482-1795), Brussels, Algemeen Rijksarchief, Studia 55, 2
vols. (for the first 100 years the Northern United Provinces are obviously
also covered in this book).
The territories kept their administration, their "States" (parliament),
their own law system etc.
E.g.: even when Brabant was divided, formally since 1648, between Spain and
the United Provinces, this division did not completely absorb the newly
formed parts in other territories: In a book from the Netherlands:
Nieuwe geographische Nederlandsche Reise- en Zak-Atlas, Amsterdam,
Jan Christiaan Sepp, 1773 (fac-simile Bobas, Weesp, 1992)
we read:
STAATS-BRABAND
bestaat uit 2 Hoofd-Deelen, te weeten: 't __halve__ Kwartier van Antwerpen,
en 't Kwartier van 's Hertogenbosch.
't Kwartier van ANTWERPEN, onder 't Staats-Gebied, behelsd de Barony van
Breda; en 't Marquisaat van Bergen, daaronder mede begrepen de Heerlykheden
Willemstad, Princeland en Steenbergen... etc.
Antwerpen was part of the South, but the part of it's district that came to
the Northern Netherlands in 1648, was still called '"half of the district
of Antwerp" in 1773.
So the old territories maintained their individuality and continued to be
designed by their old names.
There were quite a lot of changes in the South in the period 1789-1830:
1. (First period of) Independency:
The Austrians, defeated (by an internal revolution, called "de Brabantse
Omwenteling/ la Révolution brabançonne"), leave Brussels on Dec 10, 1789
The different "Staten" (parliaments) of the Southern territories meet
united in Brussels on January 7, 1789, and declare themselves "Sovereign
Congress of the United __Belgian__ States"
The States are deeply divided between conservatives and revolutionaries.
2. Back Austrian (First Austrian restoration)
Dec 2, 1790 the Austrians reconquer Brussels
3. French for the first time
Nov 6, 1792: the Austrians are defeated by the French (battle of Jemappes)
First French occupation
4. Back Austrian (Second Austrian restoration)
March 18, 1793: The Austrians defeat the French in Neerwinden
(This period is described in H. R. von Zeissberg, __Belgien__ unter der
Generalstatthalterschaft Erzherzog Carls (1793, 1794), Sitzungsberichte de
Kais. Akademie der Wissenschaften in Wien
Bd cxxviii, I Theil, 1893, 168 pp
Bd cxxix, II Theil, 1893, 176 pp
Bd cxxxi, III Theil 1894, 188 pp)
5. French for the second time
June 26, 1794: The French defeat the Austrians in Fleurus
follows: occupation regime, till:
Oct 1, 1795 (9 vendémiaire year iv): the (Belgian) territories are fully
absorbed into France. Territorial re-division in 9 departments.
6. Prussian occupation
Dec 1813 most of Brabant is occupied by the Prussians,
Feb 1 1814 the pocket of Brussels is also in Prussian hands
June 26, 1814, Treaty of the 8 articles (secret London protocol) : fixing
the union of the Netherlands
July 31, 1814, William of Orange becomes administrator of the South
Oct 30, 1814 Start of the Vienna Congress
7. Dutch occupation.
Feb 13, 1815 Treaty for the Union of the North and South, as "Kingdom of
the Netherlands" signed. (provisional agreement ahead of the final Vienna
treaty)
March 16, 1815 William declares himself King of the Netherlands and
Grand-Duke of Luxemburg (Luxemburg kept some paticular relations with
Prussia and other branches of the Nassau family; in modern history books of
the Grand-Duchy one complains William governed Luxemburg as an ordinary
province in the period 1815-1830)
June 18 1815, Napoleon once more defeated, in Waterloo
8. Independent Belgium
Aug 25, 1830, start of major troubles in Brussels, ignited by the
performance of a nationalistic (referring to Naples) opera "La Muette de
Portici" by Auber.
Sept 26, 1830, announcement of a provisional government
Oct 4, 1830, The provisional government declares the state independent
July 21, 1831, The new king, Leopold I, arrives in Brussels
(July 21 is still a Belgian national holiday)
How Belgium was called in these periods:
---> First period of Independency (1789-1790)
as to J. van den Broeck, "Verlooy," 1746-1797, 1980:
The local states (parliaments) unite and form the UNITED BELGIAN STATES
(Verenigde Belgische Staten) (Jan 1790) (p. 142)
1790 Verlooy publishes his "Projet raissoné d'union des
__Provinces-Belgiques__" (p. 143)
In the footnotes all comments in English by the British ambassador W.
Gardiner refer to the "States": "The States have now, every point they can
desire at their own disposal" ... March 23, 1790) (p. 161)
In "Colloque sur la Révolution brabançonne / Colloquium over de Brabantse
Omwenteling" Oct 1983, published by the "Koninklijk Legermuseum" in
Brussels:
p. 102: L'établissement des "Etats-Belgiques Unis"
p. 103 15,16 or 17 Nov 1789: "Monseigneur d'Arberg célèbre un Te Deum "pro
recuperatione __Belgii__ libertate"
p. 104 Nelis sera l'évêque le plus actif dans la créationdes
"Etats-Belgiques Unies"
p. 134: ... l'armée des Etats-Belgiques-Unis" vit des jours difficiles
---> First French Occupation (1792-1793)
Dec 5, 1792 acte ... loterie pour et au nom de la république __belgique___
(Pasinomie, II, p. v)
In French, the adjectif is still "belgique" here, but also "belge" is
occuring:
Dec 8, 1792 "Le peuple belge est rentré dans toute souveraineté..."
Dec 4 to 7, 1792: Décret relatif à la demande des __Belges___ , tendant à
ce que aucun traité ne soit conclu, à moins que l'indépendance absolue de
la __Belgique__ et du pays de Liège ne soit formellement reconnue et
rétablie (Pasinomie, I, 4 p. 514)
----> 2d Austrian restoration 1793-1794
The book from v. Zeissberg, we referred to above, dates from 1893 and may
contain anachronisms.
p. 1-2:
... das __niederländische__ Gouvernement gänzlich aufzulösen...
... als man die Wiedergewinnung __Belgiens__ enstlich ins Auge fasste...
... Am 27 Februar wurder er der Leitung des __niederländischen__
Departments enthoben und dieses dem Grafen Trauttmansdorff mit dem titel
eines __belgischen__ Kanzlers übtertragen...
---> 2d French occupation (1794-1813)
4 Messidor an II (June 22 1794)
Arrêté ... pour les __pays conquis dans la Belgique___
Tous les habitans des __pays conquis dans la Belgique___ (Pasinomie, I, 6
p. ix)
21 fructidor an II (Sept 7, 1794)
Arrêté... l'étendue de l'arrondissement de chaque canton de la
__Belgique___ (Pasinomie, I, 6 p. xxxii)
5 ventose an III (Feb 23, 1795)
Attêté... administration provisoire de la police générale dans la
__Belgique__ (Pasinomie, I, 6 p. lxxiv)
14 fructidor an III (Aug 31, 1795)
Arrêté.... une nouvelle division du territoire de la
__Belgique__ (Pasinomie, I, 7 p. vi-xvii)
This includes Zeeuws Vlaanderen, referred to as " la Flandre ci-devant
hollandaise".
And finally, THE END of the first "Belgium":
9 vendémiaire an IV (Oct. 1, 1795)
Décret sur la réunion de la __Belgique__ et du pays de Liège à la France.
(Pasinomie, I, 7 p. xii and 78)
----> Prussian Occupation (1814)
As a result of the Basel conference of Jan 12 1814 the actual Belgium was
initially divided over 3 governments:
- le "gouvernement général de la __Belgique__" for most of the country
- le "gouvernement du Bas-Rhin", joining the Limburg-Liège area
(provisionally) with the German Niederrhein area
- le "gouvernement du Rhin-Moyen" included initially Luxemburg (Pasinomie,
II, 1 p. x)
11 Février 1804: Proclamation des généraux Duc de Saxe-Weimar et de Bulow,
déliant les __Belges de leur serment de fidélité...
Les voeux des habitants de la __Belgique__ ...
... le gouvernement français n'esiste plus pour la __Belgique__ comme
gouvernement légitime...
(Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 22)
15 fevrier 1814 Gouvernement provisoire de la __Belgique__
Le Comte de Lottum, gouverneur militaire de Bruxelles, pour la partie
militaire; M. Delius pour la partie civile, en qualité de
commissaires-généraux administrant les intérêts des Hauts Alliés.
Gouverneur-général de la __Belgique__, le duc de Beaufort (Pasinomie, II, 1
p. 25)
30 mai 1814 (Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 143) Traité de paix entre la France et les
Puissances Alliées.
La Hollande, placée sous la souveraineté de la maison d'Orange, recevra un
accroissement de territoire...
21 juillet 1814: Acceptation de la souveraineté des provinces de
__Belgique__ par S.A.R. le prince souverain des Pays-Bas-Unis (Guillaume
d'Orange-Nassau)...
art. 3 Les provinces __Belgiques__ deront convenablement représentées à
l'assemblée des états-généraux, dont les sessions ordinaires se tiendront
en temps de pais alternativement dans une ville hollandaise et dans une
ville de __Belgique___
(These towns were Den Haag and Brussel; it's somehow similar to the actual
European parliament, having most sessions in Straatsburg, some in Brussels,
and the administration in Luxemburg) (Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 198)
31 Juillet 1814: Proclamation du gouverneur général de la __Belgique__
(baron de Vincent), aux __Belges__ avant son départ (Pasinomie, II, 1 p.
203)
1er Août Proclamation du prince souverain des Provinces-Unies (Guillaume
d'Orange-Nassau), en prenant les rènes du gouvernement de la __Belgique__
(Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 205)
1er Octobre 1814: Arrêté du prince souverain... concernant l'usage du
__flamand__...
Considérant que, par suite de la réunion de la __Belgique__ à la France,
l'usage de la langue...
... que l'usage de la langue __flamande__, qui est celle du
pays,...(Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 287)
(so not "__Dutch__" but "__Flemish__" was the language of the Netherlands,
at least when you were talking French)
16 mars 1815: Proclamation du prince souverain..; declaration que tous les
pays réunis sous son gouvernement, formeront le "__royaume des Pays-Bas__"
(Pasinomie, II, 2 p. 1 ff)
... en ajoutant... duc de Luxembourg, à cause des realations particulières
que cette province est destinée à avoir avec l'Allemagne
9 juin 1815, Acte du congres de Vienne (Pasinomie, II, 1 p. 212 ff)
art. 65:
Les anciennes provinces-unies des Pays-Bas
et les ci-devant provinces __belgiques__
....formeront...
le royaume des Pays-Bas...
Well actually the word Belgium was used before the creation of Belgium in
1830. I guess in 1789 for the first time in a "significant political
sense", as name for the union of free territories in the South, the "United
Belgian States".
I don't know when the Austrians started using "Belgien" or rather
"Belgique" (they were used to talk French).
Regards,
Roger
r.thijs at ieee.org
----------
From: Roger Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: Names (Belgium)
I found this leaflet reproduced, p. 53 in a catalogue of an exposition at
Leuven University, "Brabant in Revolutie 1789-1801", Centrale Bibliotheek,
K.U. Leuven, 22 april - 21 mei 1988:
It's calling up people for defending the free "United Belgian States"
against the Austrians.
TOT DE NEDERLANSCHE JEUGT, EN TOT DE
PRIESTERS GODTS, GEZAEMELYK EN UYT
VRYEN WILLE OPTRECKENDE TEGEN
DEN VYAND DES VADERLANDS, OP
DEN DERDEN VAN HERFSTMAEND
1790
Gae, vroome Jongheyd, gae, gy puyck van _Belgis_-schaeren:
Ruk voort, waer Mars U roept, tot heil van 't Vaderland.
Godts zegen is met U: wilt sweet, nog bloed niet spaeren;
Verdryft den trotsen Duytsch, tot over Rhenus-Strand.
Gae, zeg ik, in Godts naem: en stryd voor luttel daegen:
Uw roem zal eeuwig zyn: eeuwig uw Lauwerkroon.
En gy, ô Priesters Godts! gaet, loopt haer onderschragen;
Nog Edeler zal zyn uw eer, uw lof, uw loon.
Aenmoedigt deze jeugd: bestiert ook haere zeden:
Dat Heylig zy haer trouw; 't Volk zonder vlek of schand,
Dan zal ons _Belgica_ zig roemen, en met reden,
Dat gy zyt helden Godts; zy Helden van het Land.
This is an address to kids and to priests, to encourage the kids. What kids
don't understand is, that the eternal glory (eeuwige roem) only applies to
those who win the battle.
Regards,
Roger
r.thijs at ieee.org
==================================END===================================
You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
as message text from the same account to
<listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
* Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
* Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list