LL-L: "Orthography" LOWLANDS-L, 05.DEC.2000 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Orthography" LOWLANDS-L, 05.DEC.2000 (02) [E]

Ron wrote:
>
>> br_ee_d (wide)
>> d_ee_r (animal)
>
>Are you sure these are long monophthongs and not diphthongs?  In North Saxon:
>
>[brEIt] 'wide', 'broad' (breed, breet, breyd, bräid, breit, braid, etc.)
>[dE.IA(t)] 'animal' (Deert, Deer, deyrt, Deirt, Daiert)
>[broUt] 'bread' (Broot, Brood, Brout, Braut)
>
Well, I'm not a linguist, but I'd say they were long monophtongs.
The examples I gave have the same long e as in Dutch, only longer.

>> p_aal_l (pole)
>
>This is a long slightly-to-fully rounded monophthong in our dialects,
>apparently not in yours.
>
>[p`Q:l] ~ [po:l] 'pole'
>
I think we're speaking of the same thing... It's sort of
an extra long "short Dutch o".

>> But, there is also the letter "u". Now should I write
>> "h_u_s" or "h_uu_s"? Both sound and look the
>> same to me.
>
>What sound are we talking about?  Is it short [{oe}] or [Y], or is it long
>[y:], or long [u:]?
>
>In our dialects it's [hu:s] (with a long _oo_ sound as in English _pool_).
>
It's the u as in the German placename "Frankfurt".

>> And last, something about the animal called bear.
>> In (my) Low-Saxon, this is pronounced exactly like in
>> English, except for the r at the end. I was thinking
>> about how to write it. The Dutch write it as "beer" and
>> the Germans write it as "bär", but I think neither would
>> do well in Low-Saxon. So I was thinking, would it be
>> logical to write it as in English, as "bear"? Makes sense
>> to me at least...
>
>It should be _beer_ ([be:A]) then.  If this sound is different from the sound
>in 'beer' (the drink), it's likely that the former is a monophthong and the
>latter is a diphthong (as in out dialects): /beir/ ([bEIA]).
>
If I'd write _beer_ ([be:A]), you can easily confuse it with the drink beer.
Again, the _ee_ in _beer_ is an extra long Dutch e. The _ee_ in the
animal is more of a diphtong, same as in English.

>Henry, it's absolutely important that you distinguish long monophthongs from
>diphthongs.  Supposedly long vowels (written as long vowels, _ee_ and _oo_)
>are pronounced as diphthongs in many Dutch dialects, and I am wondering if
>this is a source of confusion for you.
>
How do you distinguish between these then?

>It is extremely difficult to help you without getting real language samples of
>your dialect, either in IPA script or in audio form.
>
 My mic broke down and I don't exactly have too much time
on my hands right now, but I'll do some recording in the near
future.

regards,
Henry Pijffers

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Orthography

Henry, I wrote and you replied:

> >Henry, it's absolutely important that you distinguish long monophthongs > from
> >diphthongs.  Supposedly long vowels (written as long vowels, _ee_ and > _oo_)
> >are pronounced as diphthongs in many Dutch dialects, and I am wondering > if
> >this is a source of confusion for you.
> >
> How do you distinguish between these then?

> >It is extremely difficult to help you without getting real language > samples of
> >your dialect, either in IPA script or in audio form.
> >
>  My mic broke down and I don't exactly have too much time
> on my hands right now, but I'll do some recording in the near
> future.

Hmm ... You know what?  We'd better be patient and wait for some audio action,
until you (and I) are less busy and you get your mic back into working order.
(I'm currently having mic problems myself.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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