LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 11.MAR.2000 (02) [E/F]

Sat Mar 11 21:29:12 UTC 2000

+=======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 11.MAR.2000 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
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From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at highbury.fsnet.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 10.MAR.2000 (05) [E]

Colin,

I think you are absolutely right regarding why English people would have
viewed your accent as "Irish" or even specifically "Northern Irish". There
is genuine uncertainty whether somebody is Scottish or Northern Irish, and I
can well believe it works both ways unless the accent is definitely one they
know (I daresay accents similar to Gerry Adams or Ian Paisley would rarely
be mistaken!)

As a matter of interest, indeed WestSound is the station I was thinking of
(though we can get Clyde FM here as well sometimes). Certainly most of their
readers have Ayrshire accents to me. (I remember on that point a fella from
Stirling telling me I had a great Ayrshire accent - he was fully aware where
I was from, it was simply a sign of solidarity, I suppose because we were
both in London at the time!)

Best,
-------------------------------
Ian James Parsley
http://www.gcty.com/parsleyij
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"

----------

From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: Language varieties

I found some interesting stuff this morning in a second hand book shop in
the area of the Antwerp Falconplein (that's the area reputedly controlled by
the Russian maffia). On the Klapdorp several shops have their doors sealed
with blue-yellow police tape. Don't think it's dangereous over there, the
recurring fellonies are just trade-mark violations. The second hand books
are genuine second hand though.
Some excepts out of two books:

1. Johann Cadovius-Müller, Memoriale linguae Frisicae, reprint 1974,
Wiesbaden.
I presume most lowlanders know this book in/about Saterfries.Some samples
though for the few exceptions:

p.53
Ostfreeske quiddewooden:
1. Gade reyhk jom feyl glick uhn zayhn
2. Ohn vaar uhn ohn mem kuhnd feyl been grott macki, uhn feyl behn kund nat
ohn vaahr en ohn mem uhnderholdi.
3. Sauhm wetter, ohle tzise uhn friske broude wissen in ohlen tiden di
Freesen gestebohde.
4. Liafe Gade, raht uhs fridde uhn dait diggelickse broude.
...
p. 133
Buhske di Remmer, di lohse mohn, di lohse mohn,
di frihde zyn wuff woll soggen jehre, wol soggen jehre,
uhn do di soggen jehr umme wehren, noch frihde hye, noch frihde hye.
...

2. J.M. Gantois, De Zuidelijke Nederlanden, Verzamelde opstellen uitgegeven
(door Staf Vermeire) naar aanleiding van zijn 60ste verjaardag, 1967,
Wilrijk, Oranje-Uitgaven.
(Gantois was a priest in Northern France supporting Dutch culture)

Dutch names for geographical topics in France

Rivers

French        Dutch
Liane         Enne
Canche      Kwinte
Authie        Otie
Ternoise    Ternas
Serre        Zerre
Somme    Zomme

(Gantois does not list some rivers passing through both France and Belgium,
and for which everybody knows both names:
Escaut    Schelde
Leie        Lys
IJzer    Yser)

Geographical area's

Marquenterre    Markenland
Ponthieu        Ponteland
Vermandois    Vermandland
Tierache        Tierasse
Boulonnais    Boonse
Calaisis        Kalesgebied
Pays de l'Angle    Land van den Hoek
Ternois        Ternasland
Artois        Artezië
Cambresis    Kamerijkse
Hainaut        Henegouwen

Municipalities (I just select a few randomly from a very long list)

Ardres        Aarde
Abbeville       Abbegem
Arras            Atrecht
Bavai            Bavik
Bailleul        Belle
La Madeleine-lez-Lille    Berkem
Bouvines    Boevingen
Boulogne    Bonen
Bourbourg    Broekburg
La-Motte-au-Bois    De Walle
Le Seau    De Zeule
Denain    Doning
Sec-Bois    Drooghout
Esquelbecq    Ekelsbeke
Gravelines    Grevelingen
Halluin    Halewijn
Haubourdin    Harbodem
Hardifort    Harrevoorde
Hesdin    Heusden
Lomme    Holne
Calais    Kales
Cambrai    Kamerijk
Mont-des-Cats    Katsberg
Le Quesnoy    Kiezenet
Clairmarais    Klommeres
Caudescure    Koudeschure
Maubeuge    Malbode
Merville        Mergem
Les Moeres    Moerkerke
Montreuil    Monsterhole
Nieppe    Niepekerke
Nieurlet    Nieuweleet
Nouvion    Noviant
Audruicq    Ouderwijk
Saint-Venant    Papingem
Saint-Pierre-lez-Calais    Peternisse
Lille    Rijsel
Roubaix    Robeke
Saint-Inglevert    Santingenveld
Saint-Omer    Sint Omaars
Bergues        Sint-Winoksbergen
Etaples    Stapel aan de Kwinte
Thérouanne    Terwaan
Le Touquet    't-Hoekske
Tourcoing    Torkwijn
Fauquenbergues    Valkenberg
Flêtre    Vleteren
Fleurbaix    Vloerbeek
Outreau    Wabingen
Guise    Wieze
Guines    Wijnen
Wissant    Witsand
Mont des Récollets    Wouwenberg
Sangatte    Zandgat
Sercus    Zerkel
... etc.

Be aware an area having (also) a name in Dutch does not mean necessarely
this place was ever Dutch-speaking for the cases above. London has also a
Dutch name: Londen.

Regards,

Roger

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