LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 13.MAR.2000 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

 =======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 13.MAR.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 =======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =======================================================================

From: Jorge Potter [jorgepot at caribe.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 12.MAR.2000 (03) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,

Jason Piorkowski comments on Canadian speech including "aboot" for "about."

Then he queries about "Swede basher."
I do believe most Canadians, especially in the Niagara Peninsula say what
you all represent phonetically by "ab at ut." Is there a key somewhere to all
the  phonetic symbols everybody seems to be using? I'm getting the feel,
but I need a list. It's the same diphthong as in Dutch "Gouda," and "hout"
and must derive from Scots.

During my stay in Montreal (McGill Medical 1951-55) what impressed me was
the lack of the much touted US melting pot phenomenon. People came from
Europe speaking their own languages and varieties thereof. An expert could
have picked out second generation people still using old country speech,
while in the US kids ding at their immigrant parents, trying to get them
into proper "American" speech forms.

Americans have always generated pejorative ("despectivo" sounds better to
me) humor that ridiculed immigrant groups. Probably that is true of other
countries, but we have had massive waves of diverse groups. The first must
have been the black slaves and to this day there are many southerners who
revel in the number of "niggahs" that wind up dead in the punch line of
jokes. The Irish were the butt of jokes early in the century, then the
Polish. The Jews pre-empted us by telling jokes on themselves. In
Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan it was and still is the Norwegians and
the Swedes. Cf. Garrison Keillor.

Colin Wilson.

PS Does anyone know the derivation of "pamphlet"? A "small pamph"
doesn't sound quite right, somehow.

Pamphilus was a Latin given name from Greek all/love. It became a favorite
name for characters in late medieval Latin love poems, like Chloe, Phyllis
and Amaryllis. As far as I know it wasn't used in the vernaculars (English,
French) of the day. It was altered to "panfilet," but how it acquired the
meaning of a printed diatribe, I don't know.

Jorge

----------

From: Jorge Potter [jorgepot at caribe.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 12.MAR.2000 (03) [E]

Jason,

Yes certainly, as the UK and Ireland become more urbanised, new
accents seemto be emerging and the old rustic ones disappearing.

In England there is a very sharp North/South divide, normally defined by
the pronunciation of 'grass' and 'hut'. But this does not mean there is one
single northern accent or one single southern accent by any means. So, the
south-west is a rather conservative accent, not dissimilar to southern
Irish (hardly surprisingly given the geography), and once you're well into
Wales you cannot help but notice the local lilt (which is also not
dissimilar to certain Irish accents, notably Co Cork, to my ears). However,
I should point out that the political boundary between England and Wales is
not a dialect boundary - indeed speakers in NE Wales can sound like those
in the suburbs of Liverpool.

Within England there is also a major boundary between the
aforementioned "Northern" and "North-eastern", the latter deriving from
Northumbrian (whence also comes Scots). Often known as Geordie though there
are variations within the region, the north-eastern accent is marked
chiefly by

its intonation and its conservative pronunciation of words such as "night"
(which sounds like "neet") or "ball" (which is similar to the German
pronunciation). Another well-known accent is "Scouse", the accent of
Liverpool, which though just 50 miles from Manchester (represented by
Elaine in 'Frasier'!) is quite unmistakeably different. It is noted for its
consonantal sounds (for example 'back' is pronounced to sound like the
composer 'Bach') among other things.

Then of course Scottish is entirely separate (despite common origins with
Northumbrian), even stopping at a service station a few hundred yards
either side of the border you will notice a sharp variation in accent, this
is known as one of the most major dialect divides in western Europe.
Southern Irish sounds, ironically, much more like English than Northern
Irish (or Ulster) sounds. The major boundaries, as I said, run along two
lines, one from Bundoran to Dundalk and the other from Derry to about
Banbridge (this one is moving NE), though the differences aren't quite as
immediate as the one between Scottish and English. And, as I said, there is
very little difference between NE Northern Ireland and SW Scotland - I
often can't tell them apart at all.

As for my perception of North American accents, I have a friend from
Wisconsin and you're right, she did sound a bit Canadian to me - I got by
"out and about" as you indicated, and also by the pronunciation of "right",
which I think sends towards "rate" in Canada. But again I wouldn't imagine
that geographical boundary is also a precise dialect division. Within
Canada I can only tell mainland from Newfoundland, and within the United
States I can spot four major divides - a sort of General American Northern,
what we might refer to as a "Texan" accent although I've heard people from
West Virginia speak it, a mid-western one (which reminds me of my own), and
New England (with the rather English pronunciation of "four cars on form").
In the south of England there is, I suppose, a type of "Black English".
Many third generation Caribbeans will still deliberately tend towards their
sort of modified Jamaican - which by now is rather distinct from Jamaican
itself. I don't think that tendency is common among Indians or Chinese
though, though I'm open to correction.

While we're on perception, I notice a difference in Australian accents
along age lines usually, and a quite clear difference between Australian
and New Zealand (such as with "fish and chips" or "magnificent"). South
African I can tell easily, but then I know South Africa quite well. Of
course there
is a major influence from Afrikaans on accent there (and of course on
lexicon, e.g. "robot" for "stoplight/traffic light").

Best,
-------------------------------
Ian James Parsley
http://www.gcty.com/parsleyij
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   such formats in your submissions.
 =======================================================================