LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 15.MAR.2000 (03) [E]

Wed Mar 15 21:25:04 UTC 2000

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 15.MAR.2000 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: John M. Tait [jmtait at altavista.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 09.MAR.2000 (05) [D/E/LS]

John wrote:
>
>I work occasionally in amateur theatre. A couple of days ago, while we were
>building a set for the next production, someone couldn't recall the name of
>the stage manager and said "You know, the girl from Ulster". One of the
>actors, who comes from Southern Ireland said "You mean Moira - I always
>thought she was Scottish". Moira is in fact from Bangor and has quite a
>pronounced Ulster accent. Another Southern Irishman then said that when he
>had been in a film set in Northern Ireland he had great trouble with the
>accent and kept lapsing into "Scottish".

Yes - you wonder what the 'Scottish' would have sounded like. One of my
sons is playing a game called 'Age of Empires 2' by Microsoft, supposed to
be set in the 'Braveheart' era. The 'Scottish' accent sends us into fits of
laughter - certainly it has elements of _southern_ Irish, as well as Lord
knows what else. With their money, MS could have hired Sean Connery!

John M. Tait.

----------

From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: Fw: polari - a gay slang with some occitan words

Is anybody familiar with the language/slang variety "Polari".
The first time I heard about it, is in the message below, from the occitan
list.
Regards,
Roger
----- Original Message -----
From: Maxime Boisset <maxime.boisset at wanadoo.fr>
To: list-oc <list-oc at cco.asso.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 7:16 PM
Subject: polari - a gay slang with some occitan words
Adieu-siatz a totes,
Los omosexuals angleses parl(av)an un argòt qu'a de mots venguts de
l'occitan via la lingua franca.
A quick Polari lexicon:
bevvy = drink = beure
bijou = small = pichon
feel = child = filh
ogle = eye = uèlh
omi = man = òme
Per ne saber mai:
http://www.stg.brown.edu/webs/corre/franca/edition2/polari.html
http://www.cygnet.co.uk/~cdenning/polari.html
--------- endquote

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language varieties

In response to Roger's question about Polari (above):

I am not really familiar with Polari but know a little bit about it.  It seems
to me that there are lots of myths and half-truths about it.

First of all, let it be said that Polari is an *English-based* *jargon*.  I
think this describes it much better than does "gay slang."  Because it is a
variety of English, discussing Polari here seems to be within the guidelines
of LL-L.

It is generally believed that Polari started in London, England, at a time
when openly homosexual people where even more marginalized than they are
nowadays, where their world rubbed shoulders with the worlds of other
marginalized members of society, such as various types of entertainers (e.g.,
circus people and vaudeville performers) and socially more or less excluded
people (e.g., Roma ("Gypsies") and various types of foreigners), and, yes,
probably also with the underworld.  This would explain why Polari has a
decidedly international character and also contains elements of rhyming
slang.  Included are also Yiddish-derived elements (e.g., _meshigener_
'crazy', _nishta_ 'nothing', 'zippo', _gelt_ 'money'), which may have reached
Polari indirectly, much like Yiddish elements having reached German via the
"Rotwelsch" underworld jargon.

Indeed, some of the Romance-derived expression in Polari (_polari_ < _parlare_
'to talk', 'to chat') seem to be of Occitan origin, perhaps because of
connections with people from Southern France.  However, the exact Romance
origin of many words is not clear, such as _capello_ 'hat', _bona_ 'good', or
_omi_ 'man'.  Also, there seem to be made-up Romance-based words, such as
_fantabulosa_ 'wonderful', 'splendid' (< _fantastico_ + _fabuloso_?).

It is also important to note that quite a few Polari expressions have filtered
into other varieties of English, and some of them are now used and understood
by the majority of English speakers everywhere.  Examples: _trade_ 'sex',
_troll_ 'to cruise (for sex)', _bod_ 'body', _dish_ 'attractive male' (>
_dishy_ 'sexually appealing'), _doll_ 'nice person' (> _dolly_ 'nice',
'kind'), _drag_ 'cross-dress', _fruit_ 'affeminate male', "queen".

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Jim Gretch <jgretch at ugf.edu>
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 15.MAR.2000 (02) [E]

John Feather asked:
>
>A curious pronunciation which I heard in Seattle from two different
>Westerners was "traysure" for "treasure". Is this a true regional variant,
>and what area does it cover?

To me, that sounds like accents I've heard from parts of
Missouri, Oklahoma, or Arkansas, e.g. "That there's a real
traysure." (drawn out)

It has a distinctly "Western Southern" sound to it (in contrast
to the Eastern Seaboard dialects),  which ultimately have
Appalachian influences -- comments from our Appalachian
specialists?  And if Appalachian bears Scottish
characteristics, how would a native of Scotland pronounce
"treasure?"

The westward migration routes from the original eastern dialect
areas crisscross so much that many distinctions are blurred
or intermixed.

In many parts of the country, people from Montana (in the far north)
are said to have a slight drawl similar to a Texan (far south).
That might be because of the cattle drive routes in the late 1800's,
but I don't notice it myself.  It's "other folk" who clip their words too
much.  You should linger and enjoy the language, in our regional
opinion (written in jest, of course, to point out that pacing and
"Sprachmusik" are more difficult to evaluate linguistically than
phonemes and vocabulary).

Jim Gretch
Great Falls, Montana

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