LL-L: "Events" LOWLANDS-L, 26.NOV.2000 (01) [E]

Sun Nov 26 19:31:24 UTC 2000

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 26.NOV.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Roger Thijs [roger.thijs at euro-support.be]
Subject: Events

Some info coming from the seminar:
"Het land van Sente-Servas" in taal en geschiedenis.
organized by the "VLDN, Vereniging voor Limburgse Dialect- en Naamkunde"
in the Gallo-Roman museum in Tongeren, Belgium.
Nov. 25, 2000

1. New events announced
1.1 Limburgish
1.2 Limburgish + Rhenanean
1.3 Limburgish + Dutch
2. Comments regarding the event of Nov 25

1. New events announced

1.1 Limburgish

The next VLDN annual seminar will be held in:
Thorn (Neterlands Limburg) on Nov 24, 2001
topic "Taal en geschiedenis in het land van Thorn".
info: VLDN, Sparrenfof 13, B 3290 Diest, tel +32-13-333883

1.2 Limburgish + Rhenanean

A joint "Jubileumsymposium" seminar will be held in
Rolduc (Netherlands Limburg) on March 24, 2001
particpate:
- VLDN (25 years)
- Veldeke (75 years)
- Amt für Rheinische Landeskunde (25 years)
info: VLDN, Sparrenfof 13, B 3290 Diest, tel +32-13-333883
(and others)

1.3 Limburgish in it's relation with Dutch.

the "Zesde Nederlandse Dialectendag"
will be held on March 17, 2001
in the castle of the teutonic order "Alden Biesen"
in Rijkhoven (Bilzen, Belgian Limburg)
info: Stichting Nederlandse Dialecten, Gen. Gavinstraat 344, Nl 6562 MR
Groesbeek
(and others)

2. Comments regarding the event of Nov 25

I'm an engineer, not a linguist, so I learnt a lot of things that may be
obvious to linguists.

2.1. I was not aware we ever have had a "week" genitive.
I did not realize it can easely be retraced in family names:

e.g.
strong genitive: with s:    Peters     Peter + s
week genitive: with en:    Daenen    Daen + en

2.2 The first miracle of "Millen"

Cajot investigated the loss of bitonality in some municipalities
South-West of Maastricht. He forwarded some hypotheses explaining this
loss, as e.g. these parishes still have a full pallet of  46 vowels (I
don't have his list), while surrounding parishes lost some vowels due to
unrounding and need to preserve the bitonality for distinguishing
homonyms.All of his hypotheses failed for the parish of Millen though.

2.3 The second miracle of Millen.

The link was made by Goossens relating local toponomy with the story of
Sint Servaas by Veldeke. When resting in Millen on the ground the ground
adjusted to the form of his body. This place was a place of pilgrimage
afterwards.
The historical Servatius was bishop of the Civitas Tungrorum in the 4th
century. Goosens lists 18 latin manuscripts with Servatius "gesta" or
"vitae" dated starting in the 6th century till 1130, before Veldeke
write wrote his version in Diets around 1170.
The topic of the dissertation was in what way Veldeke corrected the
errors of toponomy in the Latin manuscripts.

For the presentation Goossens compared excerpts from the Latin
manuscripts with the full copy of Veldeke's story, dated from the 2d
half of the 15th century. Only fragments are preserved of 12th century
versions.
(btw: the Munich fragments were not known yet at the time of publication
of the Corpus Ghyselinck, and were published in 1992 by Goossens as VLDN
monograph nr. 4 "Die Servatiusbruchstücke... Fragmente Cgm 5249/18 1b
... Bayerischen Staatsbibliothek..")

Some reflections of mine:
Even in the handout with text samples from the 15th century copy, on
finds quite a lot of vocabulary, that is, at least to me, lost in common
Dutch.

Some examples:

864    Dit hoerde ich voorwaer tellen.
As well in Limburgish as in Dutch I would only use "vertellen". somehow
the ver- was added later (Influence from Germany: erzählen?)
(voorwaer to be read here as "voor waer", as truth, not as rthe stoned
Dutch expression "voorwaar")

848 Die sommighe segghen dat dat meer
849 In dien tiden daer ginge
Veldeke corrects the latin manuscripts, since the sea never reached
Tongeren
(vita:   juxta civitaten tungrensium... maris accessus...)
(Tongeren has been sacked though several times by the Danes, who reached
it over the rivers Maas and Jeker)
In modern Dutch (and Limburgish) we use "zee" for "sea" and "meer" for
"lake".
Apparently in Veldeke's time "meer" was used for "sea" (as still in
German)

3066 Ende sall bis ane den doemsdach
At least in our roman catholic area we lost the word "doemsdag" for the
last day. Perhaps since "doem" now has a very negative meaning.

2.4 At dinner I asked Goossens (prof. emer. Univ. Münster in Westphalia)
how the local dialects behave in the area around Münster.They have been
doing censi with intervall of 10 years over there.
The dialect is virtually lost downtown Münster, he says, and even in the
countryside most young people can not speak the dialect anymore. He
states the disappearance of dialect is stronger as in the Netherlands
(and obviously very much stronger as in Belgium)
(I use "dialect" here, since I have to find a word for "Variants of the
old local language in Westphalia")

2.5 Since last year the VLDN stopped publishing monographs, but issued a
yearbook instead.
Vol. 2 was distribued yesterday to the VLDN members:
Contents:
- Jef van Loon: Typologie van de middeleeuwse namen op -burg in de
Nederlanden, pp. 5-18
- José Cajot: De Landen van Overmaze, Een linguistische benadering in
vier hoofdstukken, pp. 19-42 (26 maps in text)
- Lou Pluijmen en Jacques Drissen: Uit de keuken van het Valkenburgs
Dieksjonaer-project, pp. 43-51
- Vic Mennen, De grenzen van Eksel en hun naamgeving, pp. 52-71
- Herman Crompvoets: De situatie van het dialect in Griendsveen, pp.
73-85
- misc. info. pp. 87-96
(The contributions by van Loon, Cajot and Pluijmen were presented
earlier orally at the 1999 VLDN seminar in Valkenburg)

Regards,

Roger
www.euro-support.be

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