LL-L: "Mythology" LOWLANDS-L, 06.OCT.2000 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Mythology

I've found three pages about elder in a book on superstitions. One set of
them is about not using or burning the wood or ill things will befall you or
someone else. Not using elder for the rockers of babies' cradles is
specifically mentioned.

"In Scandinavia and Germany, it was the abode of the Elder Mother, whose
permission must be asked before it was lopped or cut down. Danish woodmen
said 'Hyldemoer, Hyldemoer, permit me to cut thy branches', before doing so.
A Lincolnshire version of the same request was
    Owd gal [Old girl], gi' me of thi wood
    An' I will gi' thee some of mine
    When I grow into a tree."

I will not go into all the remedies and charms that could be made from
elder. I tried to scan the book but the typeface is too small for my OCR
package. I may try to enlarge it and have another go if anybody is
interested. (I can put it on my website.) I should however like to hang a
true story on one line in the account.

"Seventeenth century horsemen cured a horse that could not stale [urinate]
by striking it gently with an elder-stick and binding elder-leaves on its
stomach."

Mariella Frostrup (I think Danish by birth) used to present a video review
programme on TV here. One night she was talking about some old favourites
which had just been re-released, among them the WWII POW film "The Wooden
Horse". She obviously wanted to say something like "I never get tired of
seeing TWH" but what came out was "The Wooden Horse never stales". I'm sure
she had no idea what she'd said.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: Reiner Brauckmann [Reiner.Brauckmann at FernUni-Hagen.de]
Subject: LL-L: "Mythology" LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.2000 (03) [E]

> I wonder why Frau Holle (related to the Danish Hyldemor) produces snow.
> Could it be connected with the falling (i.e., snow-like) elder blossoms?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
There has been in former times a Frau Holle of noble birth. I dont
know exactly, but I believe that she lived in the Weserbergland-
region, in a castle high in the mountains. She was famous for her
bedlinen and pillowcases and other householdutensils, which most
people in the region never owned.
Falling snowflokes may be connected with falling pillowfeathers.

gued gaohn
Reiner

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From: $ Elsie Zinsser [ezinsser at simpross.co.za]
Subject: LL-L: "Mythology" LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.2000 (03) [E]

Hello!

john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk] wrote about:
"Ring a ring o' roses
A pocket full of posies
Asha, asha
All fall down." that it refers to the bubonic plague (first line), a
prophylactic remedy (second line), sneezing and pneumonic plague (third
line) and finally Death, that is - taken as a whole the Black Death.

Yes, Ron, this is apparently not a theory. The first line refers to the
black sores appearing on the body, and the second on
the prevention of it (garlic?). I can't remember where I had read it,
but the rhyme dates from that time.
I think people have since aeons dealt with tragedy in this roundabout
way.

John, we used the words 'hush hush" in the third sentence.

Regards

Elsie Zinsser

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From: Jorge Potter [jorgepot at caribe.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Mythology" LOWLANDS-L, 05.OCT.2000 (03) [E]

John Feather wrote:

> Regarding rings, what are the rules for wedding rings in "Lowland" cultures?
> In Britain women wear wedding and engagement rings on the third finger of
> the left hand. I believe that in at least some other European countries the
> same ring is first worn on the third finger of the left hand as an
> engagement ring and then on the same finger of the right hand as a  wedding
> ring. As far as I know both Christians and Jews follow the custom of the
> country in which they live. It is only relatively recently that Englishmen
> have worn wedding rings and I believe the habit was imported from the USA.

Hold it, John. How do you count fingers? Physicians and piano players count
the thumb as number one. Do you? To an American or Canadian physician, and I
believe an English one, "ring finger" is synonymous with "fourth finger."

Jorge Potter, MD, CM

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Mythology

Reiner, I'm wondering if the Frau Holle "of noble birth" (you mentioned above)
and the Frau Holle derived from the elder tree spirit (< Holler < Holunder)
have somehow merged.

John Feather asked:

> Regarding rings, what are the rules for wedding rings in "Lowland"
> cultures?

This is how I was taught in Northern Germany:
A person of Protestant background (predominantly in Northern Germany) wears
his/her engagement ring on the ring finger of the left hand and switch it to
the ring finger of the right hand when he/she gets married.  In Roman Catholic
tradition (predominantly in Southern Germany) it is the other way around.
There is usually no difference between men and women, and special diamond
engagement rings for women are not traditional (though I'm sure they are more
than welcome by most).  It is just a more or less plain gold band that
switches hand during the wedding ceremony.  This may be a simplification, but
it is how people think about it.

Of course, most Americans wear their wedding bands on the ring fingers of
their left hands (and most women wear their diamond engagement rings on the
same finger).  So on my visits to my old stomping grounds I've seen people
stare at the ring on my left hand with raised eyebrows.  One person asked if I
had turned Catholic ...

I hope this helped.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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