LL-L: "Shared features" LOWLANDS-L, 04.JUN.2001 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 04.JUN.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: niels winther [niels.winther at dfds.dk]
Subject: Shared features

Ron wrote:

>  We discussed the matter of _piets_ in Afrikaans
>  a long time ago.  ...
>  ...
>  Many have _Klabatsch_ [kla'batS] for 'whip' and
>  _klabatschen_ [kla'batS=n] 'to whip' as well,
>  probably onomatopoetic in origin.  ...
>  ...

Criostoir wrote:

> My immediate thoughts as I read this were
> sociolinguistic: what can be said about the
> relationship between Lowland Germanic and Slavic
> speakers that meanings such as "whip" and "to beat"
> are part of the shared vocabulary? What other loans
> are there to further illustrate the social dialogue
> between the two groups?
>
> Of course to borrow the word "whip" does not imply
> hat there was any violence occurring between the two
> human groups. The broad meaning of "whip" may have
> come about through the loan of specific skills within,
> say, shepherdy (to substantiate this I presume we
> would have to look at the geophysical landscape -
> i.e., is the area from which the loans are derived
> good pasture, hill-farming, etc.?).

I'm afraid that borrowing the word for 'whip' is not
exceptional for the Germanic/Slavic relation.
When we discussed this etymology last, I remembered that
the Kiswahili word _kiboko_ for 'hippopotamus' and for a
'whip manufactured from strips of the hippo hide' is in
fact a loan-word from Persian _chabuk_, and with this in
mind, I did a little dictionary search, which showed that
there are many cognates, many could be traced back one way
or the other to Persian,Urdu/Hindi: _chabuk_.

Here are some of the suggested relations
from my earlier message on this subject:

L-Saxon   : _klabats_   < H-Germ  : _krabatsch_
Danish    : _krabask_   < H-Germ  : _krabatsch_
French    : _cravache_  < H-Germ  : _krabatsch_
H-German  : _krabatsch_ < Russian : _karbac_
Dutch     : _karwats_   < H-Germ  : _karbatsche_
Russian   : _karbac_    < Turkish : _kirbac_
Turkish   : _kirbac_    < Persian : _chabuk_
Kiswahili : _kiboko_    < Persian : _chabuk_
Malay     : _cambok_    < Urdu    : _chabuk_
Afrikaans : _sjambok_   < Malay   : _cambok_
English   : _chawbuck_  < Urdu    : _chabuk_

rgds
niels

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Shared features

Niels,

I doubt very much that Turkish _kirbaç_ (and variants of in in other Turkic
languages) is derived from Iranian (Farsi, Tajik, etc.) _chabuk_.  The
expected form would be something like *_çabuk_ (/CabIq/).  _Kirbaç_ looks very
much native Turkic to me.  I will see if I can find its etymology.  Likewise,
I doubt very much that there is a link between Swahili _kiboko_ and Iranian
_chabuk_.  _Kiboko_ appears to be a native (Bantu) word with the two meanings
'hippopotamus' and 'hippopotamus skin whip', and as such it shows typical
Bantu noun prefixing, using the prefixes _ki-_ (sg.) and _vi-_ (pl.) for
things, utensils.  The root appears to be /boko/.  Who said it was an Iranian
loan?

I do believe, though, that German _Krabatsch_ and Low Saxon _Klabatsch_ are
likely to be derived Turkic (probably Checheneg) loans.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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