LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.06 (05) [E]

Tue Nov 6 23:31:21 UTC 2001

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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.04 (01) [E]

: "Brian Frerichs" <frerichs at midwest.net>
Subject: Language Varieties

List,

First, a little background information.  I am from an area in East
Central Illinois where there are many people of East Frisian
heritage.  For the most part, the East Frisian Low German in this area
is spoken only by those over the age of 70.  I am 31 years
old, and belong to the first generation in the area to be raised without
Low German being spoken in the home.

I've noticed words ending in "cht" seem to be pronounced very
differently between Low German speakers here and those in
Germany.  Here, the German "cht" sound seems to have been completely
dropped.  For example, the words _nacht_ and _sacht_
sound like "naaw" and "saaw", and _wicht_ and _licht_ sound like "veyah"
and "leyah".  Could this "softening" of the "cht" sound be
a result of English influences?  Or is the German sounding "cht" used by
German speakers a result of High German influences?  Or
somewhere in between?

I also have a question about the word _verdaag_ ("today").  I usually
see the word written _vandaag_, _vundaag_, _vondage_, etc.  In
my area, the word is pronounced "fadaaw" or "fedaaw", without the "n"
sound.  An acquaintance of mine in Harlingerland has also
used the spelling _verdaag_.   Would anyone care to give a geographical
comparison of the different pronunciations, similar to the
one given for _proten_?

Thank you,
Brian Frerichs

Hello Brian !
In German we have two variants of ~ch according to the vocal beside it.
With "a", "o", "u" it is the "strong" ~ch as You can find it in the
Scottish "Loch" too [IPA: x]. With "e", "i", "ä", "ö", "ü" it is the
smooth
one [IPA: ç] that has a small similarity to English ~sh. In East Frisian
LS
You often hear the strong sound [x] but mostly it is an intermediate to
the
both variants mentioned for German [IPA: greek letter chi]. But in EFLS
there often is a difference between the pronounciation of the single
isolated word and the same word spoken in a sentence. There is a
complexity
of shortenings (assimilation, "sandhi", incorporation of particles or
words) that leads to numerous monosyllable words and often makes a
sentence
be just a chain of syllables structured by tone differences. By this
process consonants get lost or melt with others forming a composite
sound.
This can happen to ~ch or ~gh as well. If You want to say "good night"
it
is literally "gaued nacht" but You will hear g'naht ("h" means the
consonant "h", not a prolongation of "a") and from there it is a small
step
to the "naaw" You reported. East Frisian people in Germany however
didn't
do this step. That they did it in America must indeed be a matter of
English influence.
It must be the feeling of a very discrete pattern in English that has
brought an inherent pattern to the surface. The language of Your
ancestors
seem to have underwent in short a time a similar development as English
in
very early times. I want You to have a look upon words like "enough"
or "laugh" for instance. The German equivalent for "enough" is "genug".
In
Northern Germany most people pronounce it "genugh" (with short "u"). In
EFLS nowadays this is loaned most time but old people use the
original "naugh", "enaugh" or "ghenaugh". You must just compare the
spelling to recognize from which source the English word derived. The
equivalents for E "laugh" are G "lachen" and LS "la:gen".
There are similar pairs between German and EFLS: LS "kracht" vs. G
"Kraft"
= strength, power; LS lücht vs. G "Luft" (lücht can also mean "Licht" =
light); LS "hecht" vs. G "Heft" = grip of a knife.
More hidden You find the same relation in EFLS "süecht" ('n hôgh süecht
daun/hólen = to heave a sigh) and G "seufzen" (speak: zoiftsn).
Similar effects You find in other Lowlands (see Dutch: kracht =
strength,
gracht = canal [in EFLS "gracht" denotes a hole digged to become a grave
correlating to German "Gruft" = tomb]) and Scandinavian languages. For
example: achter - after - efter.
Thus You can see that this tendency isn't restricted to the relation
between LS and English but I have no idea what has been the impulse in
EFLS
to follow only under English influence but not in a German surrounding.

kind regards
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Folks,

Thanks to Holger for his explanations of Eastern Friesland Low Saxon
(Low German), which, I am sure, are of great utility to all of us who
are interested in Low Saxon (Low German).

We need to bear in mind, though, that the language varieties Holger
describes are specific to an area in which varieties of Frisian used to
be used.  In other words, East Frisian varieties and, if you will,
varieties of "Central Frisian" (Emsland, etc.) became extinct and were
replaced by Low Saxon (though a small East-Frisian-speaking enclave
remains in the Saterland, south of Eastern Friesland).  For this reason
we must be prepared for the possibility of encountering features,
including phonological features, in these Low Saxon varieties that are
due to Frisian substrates and may be "un-Saxon," i.e., are not present
in Low Saxon varieties used outside formerly Frisian-speaking areas.

The problem is that identifying such features may not always be terribly
easy, because we are also dealing with a type of continuum between Low
Saxon and Dutch, and Eastern Friesland and Emsland are close to the
western end of the continuum.  For instance, Holger mentioned _lucht_ or
_lücht_ for 'air' in Eastern Friesland Low Saxon.  As many of you know,
it is also _lucht_ in Dutch and in Westerlauwer Frisian.  In other, more
easterly Low Saxon dialect the equivalent is _luft_ [lUft].  A German
loan (_Luft_)?  I don't think so.  Do you?  On the other hand, our
dialects farther to the east also have _süchten_ rather than *_süften_
(cf. German _seufzen_) for 'to sigh'.

By the way, there is an archive of Low Saxon audio files at the website
"Literaturtelefon", provided by the University of Oldenburg
(http://www.bis.uni-oldenburg.de/medien/radio/literaturtelefon/literaturtelefon.html).
Most of them, if not all of them, are authors' readings in far
northwestern Low Saxon dialects, namely in dialects of the Oldenburg and
Eastern Friesland areas, not far from the Netherlands' border.  I
recommend listening to them.  I would be interested in getting your
expert comments on them.  Maron C. Fort, an American, for example, is
supposed to speak good Eastern Friesland Low Saxon, and he sounds very
impressive to me.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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