LL-L "Identity" 2001.11.14 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 14.NOV.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.09 (01) [E]

Hello Ron !
It's not easy to answer Your question. What is or what makes a Frisian
identity ?  If You ask East Frisians You will learn to know that they
identify themselves as Frisians not as Lower Saxons despite of their
nowadays language being a variant of Low Saxon and their living in the
federal state of Lower Saxony. That means they experience themselves as
being distinct to their surrounding. But is this really a matter of
Frisian
identity rather than a mere regional identity as You can find it
elsewhere
too just with the difference that the people there cannot fix it to a
tribal or ethnical heritage ?  They will name themselves with the name
of
their country instead.
Language is the one fact many East Frisians (and not exclusively these)
take to define their identity with. I already told that many believe it
to
be a kind of "genetical" feature nevertheless accepting it as a
peculiarity
if for example in a school reading contest of Platt the winner is of
asian
origin. I don't really know but I could imagine that on the other hand
the
people of Saterland who indeed speak East Frisian won't talk about
themselves as East Frisians.
East Frisians also love to highlight the differences between themselves
in
different localities. Nevertheless there is an idea of a single Frisian
identity all over the Eastern Friesland peninsula (the geographical and
ethnical Eastern Friesland) despite the historical and present political
differences. But there is little if any consciousness of the special
East
Frisian history that could be a base of Frisian identity.
Frisian identity if it exists is a somewhat diffuse thing and its
meaning
decreases under present times conditions. As I told before there are
institutions with a cultural mandate in Eastern Friesland that want such
Frisian identity to be given up for a common Low Saxon identity and also
the particular language for an All-Low-Saxon language. East Frisians
talk
much about their peculiarity and about love for their language but they
don't do much to defend and preserve it. They leave it to officials who
they believe have the time for it and aren't struggling in the everyday
business - they will do it right.

An other subject You are talking about is the jokes about East Frisians.
Many of them are really stupid. Some are offensive indeed. But
nevertheless
most people in Eastern Friesland can live with. Sometimes they just
ignore.
In some context they learned to use them for advertisement thus taking
advantage of them by promoting tourism. Of course they transport
prejudices
but many of them are interchangeable and You find the same joke for
other
ethnic groups too. That's no excuse and people should think what they
talk
and be concious of their words possibly being injuring for other people.
Such thoughtlessness reflects a way of thinking. There is stupidity and
ignorance that leads to intolerance. You often can surprise such people
with little arguments that mirror their lack of thought to them. And
their
minds should be opened to accept difference, to accept people following
another way of life or people looking different.
But there is a further kind of East Frisian jokes  that don't hurt
anyone,
too,  made by East Frisians themselves with quite an other quality than
the
above mentioned.

kind regards
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Identity

Moin, moin, Holger!

Thank you very much indeed about your interesting reply (above) to my
question about East Frisian self-identity.  (Usually we need to keep
topics separate, but this time I let it pass that you wove "Humor" into
it.)  Your explanation confirms much of what I had suspected.

You wrote:

> I don't really know but I could imagine that on the other hand the
> people of Saterland who indeed speak East Frisian won't talk about
> themselves as East Frisians.

This is what I have heard and read.  Traditionally they consider
themselves simply "Saterlanders," and until recently many of them did
not even know that their language was Frisian.  Apparently, the same is
true of Insular North Frisians, who traditionally identify with the
individual islands and associated "Frisian" only with speakers of
Mainland and Tideflats North Frisian.  We have some "representatives" of
these groups on this list.  Perhaps they can confirm this.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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