LL-L "Technical" 2000.10.21 (03) [E]

Sun Oct 21 19:11:22 UTC 2001

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.OCT.2001 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Roger Thijs <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: Sound: wav, mp3, rm-ram

In this list we are "writing" about our language varieties and quoting
in one of these languages with different "orthographic systems". But
whatever system we use, when one reads "in a language one is not used to
speak", the effect may still be that the native speakers do not
understand it it all, or start laughing in het very best case. However
we see some people have started adding sound clips to their web pages,
and I'm looking in what way I can eventuelly add "sound" to my own
pages.

Comparing with pictures in web-pages:

First of all when saving someone else's web pages (I'm using Internet
Explorer 5), the "pictures" are downloaded in a separated directory.
Some pages give problems for that though  as e.g. the Zeeland page at
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/evenhuis/info.htm
the only picture that I get automatically loaded is coded the classical
html
way:
(I omit the < > brackets for avoiding image loading when one reads this
message)
--- code
img border=0 width=43 height=18 id="_x0000_i1032" src=noe-tje.gif
--- end code

Others are called twice in the web page,
e.g. as well "compressed":     "image001.gif"
as "sized":       " image002.gif",
in the source of the very same "Zeeland" page:
--- code
v:imagedata src="./info_bestanden/image001.gif" o:title="kaartZS"/
w:wrap type="square"/
/v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=246 height=261
src="./info_bestanden/image002.gif" align=left hspace=12
v:shapes="_x0000_s1042"
--- end code
and these imagexxx files I need to download manually one by one..

Sound.

For sound files called from within the web pages though, these are not
automatically saved with the webpages, and have to be downloaded
separatedly, after one has found the proper name and location in the
source code of the web page.

1. wav files

I worked with them several years ago, since they were created when I
saved sound with my Sound-Blaster. I did not get a good sound quality,
and the wav files took terribly much disk space. So I stopped.

On the web I found a few cases:

1.a when opening a site with texts of belgian songs in Dutch language
http://users.skynet.be/sky81715/index.html
one hears a yell "Vlaanderen boven" located at
http://users.skynet.be/sky81715/vlaand.wav
55 kb for 5 seconds
coded in the header of the source as:
--- code
bgsound src="vlaand.wav" loop=3
--- end code

1.b When opening a site with texts in West-Flemish (Izegem) of the songs
of the fist CD of the song group "'t Hof van Commerce":
http://home.planetinternet.be/~plaenen/hof.htm
one hears a yell located at
http://home.planetinternet.be/~plaenen/hof.wav
114 kb for 5 seconds
coded at the bottom of the body of the source as:
--- code
BGSOUND SRC="hof.wav" LOOP=1
--- end code
1.c For the site of the regional dialect dictionaries (N. Belgium - S.
Netherlands)
http://www.flwi.rug.ac.be/dialect/
I take one of the pages ("sprekende kaarten") with sound clips for the
word "schommel" out of it's frame, url:
http://www.flwi.rug.ac.be/dialect/Sprek_kaart/Schommel/schommel.htm
When we click e.g. on Bilzen (in Belgian Limburg) one hears "sjok",
from a sound file located at
http://www.flwi.rug.ac.be/dialect/Sprek_kaart/Schommel/Bilzen.wav
40 kb for less than 1 second
--- code ("coded" behind a map)
AREA SHAPE="CIRCLE" COORDS="339, 339, 15" HREF="Bilzen.wav"
--- end code

Comments:
"wav" files are recognised by the bowsers and played automatically.
The sound quality is poor though, and they take much space.
When downloaded directly or replayed from my hard disk they are dealt
with "Windows Media Player".
Since they are not saved automatically with the web pages, from within
Internet Explorer 5, as pictures normally do, I have to download and
save them manually one by one.

2. mp3 files

Some singers offer mp3 clips for their public

2.a Stef Bos does it on page:
http://www.stefbos.nl/mp3/mp3.html
with a monthly swap to another clip.
For October one can download the song
'Die Duivel en God" (demo)
2.32 min 2381 kb, plays with Windows Media Player
from
http://www.stefbos.nl/mp3/downloaden.html
--- with code
(between head and body)
META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="3;URL=oktober2001.mp3"
(and in the body an anchor for when it fails to start automatically)
A HREF="oktober2001.mp3"
--- end code
leading to
http://www.stefbos.nl/mp3/oktober2001.mp3

2.b. Similarely, e.g., one can downmoad three mp3 files from Margriet
Hermans from the site:
http://www.firmcom.be/margriet/mp3.html
e.g. for one of the three "Amsterdam" one finds an anchor with
--- code
a href="illus/amster.mp3"
--- end code
leading to:
http://www.firmcom.be/margriet/illus/amster.mp3
3.38 min 3420 kb plays with Windows Media Player

Questions:
- What soft is most suitable for converting audio recorded sound into
mp3 on one's PC? Is the audio entry of the Soundblaster card
sufficiantly consistent with a good quality result when pumping directly
from a record or tape player, with or without amplification?
- Would a digital DAT or DCC recorder be recommended for optimal sound
quality?
- Does there exist good soft for DAT/DCC to mp3 conversion?

3. rm and ram files
One needs at least the free "Basic" version of Real Player, downloadable
from
http://www.real.com/player/index.html?lang=nl&src=nl_cp&hts=yes
(or similar for other languages)
I had problems with downloading some clips, since the thing refused to
save sound files and downloaded each time again rather than playing what
was in cache from an exercise just before. Also Internet Explorer played
for some cases with the download facility inaccessible. I finally got
the "difficult" clips accesible for download to HD using an old version
of Netscape Communicator.

3.a   rm files
We take one of the songs of Klektje (Flemish from France) from the List
at:
http://www.sip.be/dialect/scholen/school9/folfra.htm
We select for
Nee'w me gaen nuus Vlaemsch nie laeten
(The "national Anthem of the Flemish people in Northern France)
http://www.sip.be/dialect/scholen/school9/folfra7.htm
we get a page with the text and the song will play automatically
IF we have installed real player.
--- code in the page
-- in the HEAD:
meta name="rnmediafile" content="folfra7.rm"
meta name="rnmetafile" content="folfra7.rpm"
-- and in the BODY a little monitor (allows replay, with new download)
coded as:
object id="video1"
classid="clsid:CFCDAA03-8BE4-11cf-B84B-0020AFBBCCFA"
align="baseline" border="0" width="275"
height="40"><param name="controls"
value="ControlPanel"><param name="console"
value="Clip1"><param name="autostart"
value="true"><param name="src"
value="folfra7.rpm"
---  end code

The rpm file is easy downloadable, but it is just a text file with an
url to the rp file.
For downloading and getting it saved for playing from my HD  the "rm"
file I had to use Netscape.

http://www.sip.be/dialect/scholen/school9/folfra7.rpm
http://www.sip.be/dialect/scholen/school9/folfra7.rm
both make the song being played (2.32 min), when encoded in the Internet
Explorer URL window.

On the HD, when saved,
folfra7.rpm is just 1 kb (a text file with just one external url)
folfra7.rm is 395 kb and can be played from the HD using Real Player
without external connection

Comments:
The files are very well compressed; the user needs Real Player though
for playing them. Downloading can apparently be made difficult so the
user has to make a connection each time he wants to hear the song being
played.

3.b. ram files

RAM files are apparently also Real Player files.
e.g. some downloads of (part of) songs of 't Hof van Commerce can be
done from:
http://houbi.simplenet.com/belpop/groups/hofvancommerce.htm
for e.g. "Izegem" the code in the url page is:
-- code
a href="../ram/hofvancommerce.ram"
-- end code
(easy to save: right mouse click on the url etc.)
1 min 11 sec 140 kb

(P.S.: The tekst of this song can be found at:
http://home.planetinternet.be/~plaenen/hof/tek3.htm)

So my basic question is:
Has someone on the list experience with including sound clips in web
pages?
What advice could one give for recording "dialect talk" properly in the
field and including it in web pages, with a good "accessibility"
(standard browser features) and a decent "quallity/file_size" ratio?

Thanks for all comments,

Regards,

Roger

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