LL-L "Etymology" 2002.04.07 (06) [E]

Sun Apr 7 22:49:07 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 07.APR.2002 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.29 (05) [E]

> From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.29 (01) [E]
>
>> Do you think this _wonn_ is derived from Old English, or might it be a
>> "Flemish" loan?  The German verb root for 'to dwell' or 'to reside' is
>> /voon-/ _wohn-_, Low Saxon /vaan-/ _wahn-_ ~ _wohn-_ ~ _waan-_, and
>> Dutch /voon-/ _woon-_.

Dear Marco, and Ron,

In Flemish we have:
wonen - weunen - weunn
woonste (tweewoonste, driewoonste)
weune(Dutch:woon,woning), kortweune, weunste, kortweunste (a small house
with little or no land).
Greatings,
Luc Vanbrabant

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.29 (06) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Wow!  So it *has* been used!
>
> What about *_wonn(in) steid_ then, analogous to archaic Flemish
-Woonste- is not archaic in Flanders. We use the words every day when we
look at houses.
> _woonste_ and Low Saxon (Low German) _waanstee(d')_?  Would it be
> understood, and has it ever been used?
 Flemish has -stee- and -stede- for a place. Hofstee (hofstede)= a farm
>> Just shows how
>> important it is to keep a language's literature in the public
>> eye!
Groetjes,
Luc Vanbrabant

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.04.02 (01) [E]

> From: "Mathieu. van Woerkom" <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.03.28 (07) [E]
>
> Ron wrote:
>
>> Gustaaf, not to forget Scots _toon_ 'town', and Low Saxon (Low German)
>> _Tuun_ (Dutch spelling _toen_), plural _Tüün_ (Dutch spelling _tuun_)
>> which means 'garden' in the northwestern dialects (of the Netherlands
>> and Germany) and 'fence' in the other dialects, including Mennonite Low
>> Saxon (Plautdietsch) where it is _Tu(u)n_ or _Tü(ü)n_, plural _Tien_.
The Dutch spelling is -tuin-. The Flemish spelling is -tun,tuun, old
spelling:tuyn.
We have a -tuynhaghe(a fence around a garden)
A tuin meaned also an iron fence around a grave, or the candllerow
around
the bier.
In South-Flanders(France) there are a lot of places with -thun- in there
name (original -diets- origine) like:Baincthun, Offrethun,Connincthun,
Landrethun, Wadenthun, Fréthun, Verlincthun...(With the same meaning as
in
the English places with -ton-)
Regards,
Luc Vanbrabant

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R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

To go beyond the Lowlands and to further demonstrate the semantic shifts
in the group 'yard' and 'garden' plus 'haw' (archaic 'hedge',
'enclosure', cf. Dutch _haag_, Low Saxon _Haag_ < Old Saxon _hago_),
let's consider Modern North Germanic:

Danish:
have 'garden'
gård 'yard', 'farmstead'
gærde 'fence'

Norwegian (Bokmål):
hage 'garden'
gård 'yard', 'farmstead'
gjerde 'fence'

Swedish:
hage 'field', 'grove', 'paddock'
gård 'yard', 'farmstead'
trädgård 'garden' (+ träd 'tree')
gärda 'field', 'fence'
gärdsgård 'fence'

Icelandic:
hagi 'paddock'
garður (garð+ur) 'garden'
girða 'to fence'
girðing 'fence' ("girding"?)*

* _girð-_ < Old Norse _gyrth-_ = Modern English _gird_ < Old English
_gyrd-_ = Modern Low Saxon _görd-_ < Old Saxon _gurd-_, Modern German
_gürt-_ < Old High German _gurt-_ < Germanic _gurdhh(-jan)_.

Note also the word for 'wren' in connection with 'fence':
Danish: gærdesmutte (smutte 'to slip')
Norwegian: gjerdesmutt (smutte 'to slip')
Swedish: gärdasmyg (smyga 'to slip', 'to creep', 'to sneak')
Low Saxon (Low German): Tuunkrüper (Tuun 'fence' + krüpen 'to creep',
'to sneak', 'to slip' < /krüüp-/)

We may be dealing with a calque (translated loan) between Scandinavian
and (certain dialects of) Low Saxon (Low German).*  But which way did it
go?  What is 'wren' in Icelandic?  (If there is no such bird in Iceland
and the Old Norwegian word was lost in Icelandic, Icelandic may have a
Danish loan for the name.)

* In some other dialects _Tuunköni(n)g_ ("fence king"); cf. German
_Zaunkönig_, Brabantish _köningske_, Flemish _keuninkske_ Dutch
_winterkoninkje_, Westerlauwer Frisian _winterkeninkje_, Limburgish
_winterkuningske_.  (Zeelandic _duumpje_ "little thumb"?)
(See http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/low-saxon/ls-story.html)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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