LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (10) [D/E/LS/Z]
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L O W L A N D S - L * 22.AUG.2002 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (05) [D/E/LS]
Moin, Luc, You wrote:
> From: "Luc Hellinckx" <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> Beste leeglanners,
>
> Fiete wrote :
>
> >Should that cognate with (in our LS dialect) "meien", (UG) "mähen", (E)
> >"to mow"? We have also (LS) "dat Meiite", "de Mood", (UG) "das
> >Gemähte", "die Mahd", (E) "the mowed [grass]", "[grass, which] has to be
> >mowed".
>
> Sure, they all derive from the verb "mähen" (G), "to mow" (E). Thence,
> the
> second collection of grass is called "the aftermath" in English and "de
> toemaat" in Brabantish.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Luc Hellinckx
Is "de toemaat" the second ("toe" sounds like "two") mowing? In our LS
dialect we call it "Noomood", UG "Nachmahd". In times before artificial
fertilizers there were mostly only two cuts.
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Ron schreev:
>
> (Hoog-) Düütsch hett daar för ook 'n oldbacksch Woord: _deuchten_ (t.B.
> _Es deuchtet mir ..._).
Büsst Du seeker? Ick kenn't blaut ass: "Es deucht MICH (accusativum)".
De (UG) "Dünkel" schall door ook woll von affkoomen.
Best' Gröötens un' Regards
Fiete.
----------
From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: Etymology
Hi, Lowlanders,
this evening Luc <luc.hellinckx at pandora.be> wrote:
>Thence,
>the
>second collection of grass is called "the aftermath" in English ...
I did know this word from some textes in Heavy Metal songs and felt
that
there could be a complete different meaning. I took a glance into my
English
Dictionary (Hornby and others) and found : "result, consequence:
..misery is
often the aftermath of war".
I don't dare to have any doubts about Luc's interpretation, but it's
interesting, that there is no connection to the obviously origin of the
word.
Bad dictionary? I didn't think so until today, in this special case! I
do
not use any etymologic dictionaries at all because I don't trust in this
kind of stuff.
Best Regards
Fiete.
----------
From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.08.22 (02) [E]
Hi, Ron, Leeg- and Lowlanners,
Ron wrote:
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Luc:
>
> > "snakken" (to talk) is also used in Western Flemish, but only
> > when somebody is snapping, "je moe zo ni snakn tegen mi"...
>
> As you seem to already know, this is the normal word for 'to speak', 'to
> talk', in most North Saxon dialects and also in many Mecklenburgish
> ones, usually _snacken_ ['snakN=], in some dialects _schnacken_
> ['SnakN=] or farther southeast _schnacke_ ['Snak@]. Within the North
> Saxon dialect areas there are dialect groups that use _spreken_
> ['spre:kN=] ~ ['Spre:kN=] or, in the far northwest (parts of Eastern
> Friesland, Oldenburg and Emsland) where they say _praten_ ~ _praot(e)n_
> ['pr@:tn=]. _Snacken_ made it's way into the South Jutish dialects and
> into Danisch proper (_snakke_) and from there into Dano-Norwegian
> (_Bokmål_) (_snakke_), into Swedish as well (_snacka_ 'to yap'). (Might
> there be a connection with English "to snack" < _snaken_ 'to bite'?)
Your last sentence:
>(Might
> there be a connection with English "to snack" < _snaken_ 'to bite'?)
Crazy assumption- couldn't it derive from a real "snake": "snap", (UG)
"schnappen", "to bite [fast]", because of the snake's ability to bite
very
fast and to widen its mouth incredibly?
In our regional LS dialect we have got some place names, e.g. (de)
"Snook"
or "Schnook", meaning areas situated along a swinging river.
Regards
Fiete.
----------
From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.08.22 (02) [E]
Just another "glance" on the snake's influence:
the snake always was suspected to speak with a "splitted" tongue- in our
Low
German language You have to interprete "snacken" always as something,
yes--,
said "just for fun" (as Ron teached me several weeks ago1). If You want
to
talk about really relevant themes, You should (LG) "spreeken", (UG)
"sprechen", (E) "to speak".
----------
From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (05) [D/E/LS]
Frans Vermeulen wrote:
> 'Denken': in het West-Vlaams is haast uitsluitend gebruikt in de
> zinswending
> "het dinkt me dat ...", net iets anders dan voor 'dunken': "me dunkt dat
> ...";
> voor 'denken' als onafhankelijk werkwoord wordt 'peinzen' gebruikt: "ik
> peinze er het mijne van".
In 't Zeêuws gebruke me juust _peinzen_ nie. Of
naebie nie. 't Oor in ielk gevaol as Vlaoms gevoeld.
Ons è 't werkwoord 'dienke(n)':
Ik dienke a 'k vanaeven mae 's thuus bluuve
't Nederlandse werkwoord _dunken_ ei nie echt een
Zeêuws equivalent. Dae oor geweunlijk 'glôve' vo
gebruukt (NL _geloven_):
Ik gloôve at 't beter zou zien om thuus te bluven
NL: Me dunkt dat het beter is thuis te blijven
't Is trouwens zò dat aolle (!) verschiensels die as
vo 't West-Vlaoms deu Luc van Brabant genoemd
bin, oôk vo 't Zeêuws gelde. Wee mae een keer een
bewies a 't verschil tussen West-Vlaoms en Zeêuws
voraol een kwestie van gevoel en nie van (tael-)we-
tenschap is.
't Is wè zò dat diengen die as gunter verouderd bin,
'ier nog wè volop leve. En aorsom is t't zò dat
sommigste diengen die a 'ier verouderd bin, in West-
Vlaenderen wè nog in gebruuk bin.
Groet,
Marco
----------
From: "Daniel Prohaska" <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (01) [E]
Dear Selma,
I didn`t respond to your question in Dutch, not because I cannot read
it,
but because I`m no expert on this particular subject. But I can give you
what it says in the "Bloomsbury Dictionary of Word Origins".
The entry "tree":
"Tree is part of an ancient and widespread family of "tree-" words that
goes
back ultimately to Indo European *deru, *doru. This appears originally
to
have designated specificallythe "oak", rather than "tree" in general, an
application retained by some of its descendants: Greek "drús", for
instance
(source of English dryad), and Welsh derwen (apossible relative of
English
druid). From it came Germanic *trewam, which has evolved into Swedish
"träd", Danish "trae", and English "tree". Other English words from the
same
source include "tray" (etymologically a "wooden" vessel), trough, and
possibly "tar"
----------
From: "Daniel Prohaska" <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (03) [E/S]
Dear Selma
"Bloomsbury Dictionary of Word Origines" has the following listed under
the
entry "true":
" The underlying etymological meaning of "true" is "faithful, steadfast,
firm"; "in accordance with the facts" is a secondary development. It
goes
back to the prehistoric Germanic base *treww-, which also produced
German
"Treue", an Dutch "trouw" "faithful" and the English noun "truce", and
it
has been speculated that it may ultimately have links with the
Indo-European
base +dru- "wood, tree" (source of English "tree"), the semanti link
being
"firmness", "steadfastness" of oaks and suchlike trees. "Truth" comes
from
the same source, as do its derivative "betroth" its now an archaic
variant
"troth", the equally dated "trow", and probably also "trust" and
"tryst".
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology
Fiete:
> > (Hoog-) Düütsch hett daar för ook 'n oldbacksch Woord: _deuchten_ > (t.B.
> > _Es deuchtet mir ..._).
>
> Büsst Du seeker?
Nee.
> Ick kenn't blaut ass: "Es deucht MICH (accusativum)".
Daar schast wull recht hebben. So wat seggt 'n ook nich mehr faken, un
daar verlehrt 'n dat.
Ja, ik heff maal gau nakeken, un Du hest dat akraat hinkregen.
Frans Vermeulen en Marco Evenhuis:
> > 'Denken': in het West-Vlaams is haast uitsluitend gebruikt in de
> > zinswending
> > "het dinkt me dat ...", net iets anders dan voor 'dunken': "me dunkt > dat
> > ...";
> > voor 'denken' als onafhankelijk werkwoord wordt 'peinzen' gebruikt: > "ik
> > peinze er het mijne van".
>
> In 't Zeêuws gebruke me juust _peinzen_ nie.
Ik geloof, dit woordje stamt van Frans _penser_ 'denken' af. Het moet
tamelijk oud zijn, want ik heef het in Vlaamse tekten van de 16de eeuw
gevonden.
Grötens en groetjes,
Reinhard/Ron
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