LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.27 (03) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 27.AUG.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.22 (10) [D/E/LS/Z]

 Frans Vermeulen en Marco Evenhuis:
>
>>> 'Denken': in het West-Vlaams is haast uitsluitend gebruikt in de
>>> zinswending
>>> "het dinkt me dat ...", net iets anders dan voor 'dunken': "me dunkt > dat
>>> ...";
>>> voor 'denken' als onafhankelijk werkwoord wordt 'peinzen' gebruikt: > "ik
>>> peinze er het mijne van".
>>
>> In 't Zeêuws gebruke me juust _peinzen_ nie.
>
> Ik geloof, dit woordje stamt van Frans _penser_ 'denken' af.  Het moet
> tamelijk oud zijn, want ik heef het in Vlaamse tekten van de 16de eeuw
> gevonden.

Dag Frans en Marco,

In het West-Vlaams gebruik ik het werkwoord "denken(D)" altijd als:
Tink me da.... (E: I think that...)
't Dochte me (E: I thaught...)

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.08.26 (08) [E]

Fiete wrote

> L.S. word for (E) "beggar", (U.G.) "Bettler" was
>  "Buttje(r)".
> That seems interesting, because: I did know this word, but for me it
> meant
> (E) some kind of "little boy" ( perhaps [U.G] "Rumtreiber"??),
> specially
> spoken in the area of the city of Hamburg.

Zeelandic has _boetje_ (pronounced the same
way as _Buttje_) for a little boy as well. Note
that it is/was predominantly used in the cities
(Vlissingen, Middelburg, Goes...) and is/was
less known in the countryside.

regards,

Marco

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Certainly, in Hamburg, both in Lowlands Saxon (Low German) and in
Missingsch, _Buttje_ denotes 'boy'.  In fact, many people see this word
as typical of Hamburg, and a native male of Hamburg (such as myself,
yes, at any age) may be referred to as _('n echten) Hamborger Buttje_
'(a true) Hamburg lad'.  I can see the connection between "boy" and
"street urchin," hence an extension to "vagabond" and "beggar."  (Street
urchins used to be known to beg and/or pickpocket in the "good," old
days.)  However, I am not aware of _Buttje_ being used to denote
"beggar."  I *am* aware, however, that in Hamburg _Buttje_ can also
denote a budgerigar/budgie (American 'parakeet'), perhaps because of
"contamination" by Kamilaroi (_gijirrigaa_) > Australian English >
British Englich word _budgerigar/budgie_.  The proper German name is
_Wellensittich_ ("wave parakeet").

I thought we discussed _Buttje_ ~ _boetje_ some time ago, and the upshot
was that it may well have come from _Butt_ ~ _boet_ 'flatfish' (as in
the fairytale _Von den Vischer un syne Fru_ ("... Buttje, Buttje in der
See ...") in the Grimm Brothers' collection.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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