LL-L "Etymology" 2002.07.18 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 18.JUL.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Phonology"

> To: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.07.16 (11) [E]
>
> I think in West-Flanders we have some words that are related.
> pander (paander-pender):a round or oval basket made of fine soft wooden
> branches(wissen in Flemish).
> ponk(e)-ponte: a money-box or other things like fruit which one hides
> and
> gathers. -een ponke vergaren
>          -een ponke appels
>          -iemands ponke roven
>          -een ponkske voor den ouden dag
> ponken= to gather and a 'ponker' is someone who gathers.

It's interesting to see the word "ponte". When I was a child
in East Lothian (Scotland), our village used to have strawberry
fields, and the little approximately cubic cartons in which
strawberries were sold were called "punnets" /'pVnI?s/, so we
would ask for "a punnet o strawberries".

Note that short /o/ -> /V/ is a known process in Scots, eg
logic ['lVdZIk], complexion [kVm'plE:kS=n] &c, so the word
is quite close to "ponte".

For what might be somehow related to the other words, in
Scots we have "pootch" /putS/ and "poke" /pok/, which I
imagine are Saxon and Norse cognates, respectively (cf
Icelandic "poki").

"Pootch" corresponds to both English "pouch" and "pocket",
while "poke" is usually used to refer to a small paper bag
these days.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Sandy, Lowlanders,

"Punnet" (a small container -- originally probably a basket -- for
berries, etc.) is also in common use in Australia and New Zealand, both
of which have *a lot of* Scottish influences (Western Australia
predominantly so, I dare say), plus a lot of good stuff to be collected
in punnets.  Having lived in Fremantle, Western Australia, in short
walking distance from the weekly farmer's market, I had come to believe
that "punnet" was a commonly, even universally used English word, until
I used it in the United States and was not understood (even though
berries tend to be sold in plastic or paper punnets here).  I had
forgotten that I had never heard the word used in England either.

I did a quick search on Alta Vista (+punnet +berries) and found that the
majority of websites that came up were from Australia and New Zealand,
some of them from the United Kingdom, and they seemed to be mostly or
only Scottish.

According to the _Oxford Dictionary_, the origin of the word is unclear
([Of obscure origin: perh. f. _pun_, dial. for POUND n.1 + ET.]).

So, perhaps it came from Scots (or Northumbrian) *_pun(d)_ 'pound' and
came to be extended diminutively to _punnet_ ("little pound"),
analogously to "pun" > (arch./obs.) "punnet" (little pun).  Just a
theory.  Given very strong Scottish representation in Australia, the
word would have been taken directly downunder (i.e., not via England).

Also, the _OD_ gives an example sentence:
1907 Westm. Gaz. 27 June 12/1 The Perth strawberry crops are heavy, and
for the first time large quantities of punneted berries are to be sent
down South.

So, there is the verb "to punnet" as well, which I have never heard
used.

Given the use of the word "punnet," this "Perth" in the quote could be
either Perth in Scotland or Perth in Western Australia.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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