LL-L "Grammar" 2002.06.03 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 03.JUN.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Reuben Epp" <repp at silk.net>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.06.02 (05) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Grammar
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> Further about grammatical uses of 'to do', I should add that in her
> dictionary of the Northeastern Low Saxon (Low German) dialects (of
> Mecklenburg and Western Pomerania) Renate Herrmann-Winter lists one use
> that I think is disappearing in other dialects (if it used to be more
> widely spread).  _Doon_ ~ _daun_ 'to do' is used with the infinitive
> form of the main verb preceded by _to_ ~ _tau_ ([to.U] ~ [teoU] ~ [ta.U]
> ~ [teaU]) 'to' to express extended action, apparently often in the
> context of disapproval; e.g., ... (Dutch-based spelling in parentheses)
> ...
> Wat deist du hier tau sitten?
> (Wat daaist dôê hier taau zitn?)
> "Wat dost thou here to sit?"
> What do you keep sitting around here for?
>
> Wat sall dat Tüüchs noch rümtauliggen daun?
> (Wat zal dat tuugs noch rumtaaulign daaun?)
> "What shall that/the stuff still around-to-lie do?")
> What's that stuff supposed to keep lying around for?
>
> Is there anything similar in other language varieties?
>
> Thanks for all the other feedback on this topic.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Reuben Epp <repp at silk.net writes:

In Plautdietsch we would say in similar vein to the foregoing
two sentences:

Wat deist du hier tau sitten?
Woo kjemmt daut, daut du hia noch sette deist?

Wat sall dat Tüüchs noch rümtauliggen daun?
Woo kjemmt daut, daut dit Zeig (Stoff) hia noch romligje deit?

Considerable variations in wording are understandably prevalent,
but use of the 'to do' verb is equally prevalent in Plautdietsch too.
For example:
'Put this in your pocket,' is frequently worded as: 'Doo dit en
diene Fupp.'  Some consider such use of 'doo' to be child talk,
and would prefer to say 'Stäakj (staikj) di dit en diene Fupp.'

A similar use of 'to do' in Plaudietsch adult terms is:

If you continue to walk here....
Wan du wiedahan hia gohne deist ....

Cheers!

Reuben Epp

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Thanks, Reuben.

That's also how it is rendered in Northern Low Saxon (Low German):

> Woo kjemmt daut, daut du hia noch sette deist?
Wo kümmt dat, dat du hier noch sitten deist?

> Woo kjemmt daut, daut dit Zeig (Stoff) hia noch romligje deit?
Wo kümmt dat, dat dat Tüüg hier noch rümliggen deit.

Semantically, these are a bit different: (1) they express "how come
...?" (rather than disapprovingly "what ... for?"), and (2) they don't
*necessarily* express disapproval of the duration, could also express
surprise.

I am not familiar with the specific pattern as given by Hermann-Winter
in Northern dialects, specifically expressing (undesirably) extended
action:

> Wat deist du hier tau sitten?
> (Wat daaist dôê hier taau zitn?)
* Wat deist du hier to sitten?

> Wat sall dat Tüüchs noch rümtauliggen daun?
> (Wat zal dat tuugs noch rumtaaulign daaun?)
* Wat s(ch)all dat Tüügs noch rümtoliggen doon?

This also works:

> If you continue to walk here....
> Wan du wiedahan hia gohne deist ....
Wenn du wiederhen hier gahn deist, ...

Using the pattern discussed (apparently implying disapproval), it should
theoretically be ...

* Wan du hia too gohne deist, ...
* Wenn du hier to gahn deist, ...
If go keep on walking here ...

> 'Put this in your pocket,' is frequently worded as: 'Doo dit en
> diene Fupp.'  Some consider such use of 'doo' to be child talk,
> and would prefer to say 'Stäakj (staikj) di dit en diene Fupp.'

That would be similar in the Northern dialects:

Do dit/düt in dien Fick.
Stick/Steck dit/düt in dien Fick.

However, I'm not too shure if the use of _doon_ here would be considered
childish.  _Doon_ is very widely spread and neutral, very much like
English "to put."

Do dat Book up 't Riech.
Still/Stell dat Book up 't Riech.
Put (~ place) the book on the shelf.

Do de Blomen in 't Water.
Still/Stell/Stick/Steck de Blomen in 't Water.
Put (~ place) the flowers into (the) water.

Do d'n Kassen ünner dien Bedd.
Still/Stell/Stick/Steck/Schuuv' d'n Kassen ünner dien Bedd.
Put (~ shove) the chest under your bed.

In fact, I feel that the versions with _doon_ sound more natural, the
alternative ones with specific verbs perhaps a touch _geel_ ("yellow,"
i.e., "High"-German-tinted).  Others may disagree.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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