LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.10 (05) [E/LS]

Fri May 10 23:58:46 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 10.MAY.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.09 (03) [E/LS]

>From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.08 (01) [E]
>...
>Another word, I would like to discuss about: "Maulwurf" upper german,
>"mole" english, "Wí² í½·arp" of "Windwarp" opp plattdí²³í´³ch.

Moin Fiete !

In 't OostfrÃ¤island sÃ¤egent wi "muel" of "frÃ¶yt". Dat tweied is man
in
enkeld laughen tau hÃ¶Ã¶ren - ik kÃ¤en 't man fan 't Gro'fen
(GroÃŸefehn) in d'
auerker kuntraj. Dat word kumt fan "frÃ¶yten" wat bedÃ¼d fan (in 't
hoghdÃ¼Ã¼ts) "wÃ¼hlen", "planlos werkeln", of "ruhelos werkeln" un meer
fan dat sort.

kumpelment
Holger

Hello Fiete !

In Eastern Friesland we say "muel" or "frÃ¶yt". The second You just hear
in some single villages. It is derived from the verb "frÃ¶yten" which
means [(in German) "wÃ¼hlen" etc.] "to rummage", "to burrow" but also
"to work without any plan", "restless working" and more in this
direction.

Regards
Holger

----------

From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.10 (01) [E/LS]

>From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.09 (03) [E/LS]
>
...
>Overs- dennen "Heister" (Elster) kenn hei nich, jí²í´ sau weinig
>"Dacklí±ºíµ®"
>(Hausspatz, buen jemme Nester inn't Reit-Dack)) un "Miedelreinen"
>(Ameise,
>engl: "ant").
>
>Leewe Greut
>
>Fiete.
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology
>
>[English below]
>
>Moin, Fiete, Leeglanners!
>
...
>Ja, man is _flutterby_ de Dreiher, or _butterfly_.  Na dat, wat Du
>schreven deest, schull _butterfly_ vun _flutterby_ kamen.  Man ik dink
>daar on 't neddersassische (nedderdí²³í´³che) "Botterlicker" un
>"Bottervagel" (in annere Dialekten "Summervagel" un "Fleerling"), un
>daar wardt mi moden, dat _flutterby_ 'n old poeetsch Woordspeel
fíºˆíº¾_butterfly_ is.  Ja, un so is dat denn wull ook.  In de
Wíº›í²¢í¹®íµ² geevt
>se middel-ingelsch _butterflye_ un old-ingelsch _butorflê¯§e_.
>
>> Overs- dennen "Heister" (Elster) kenn hei nich
>
>In annere Dialekten heett dat "Hester", "Heekster", "Heckster" un
>"Eekster" (nedderlandsch _ekster_).
>
>> jí²í´ sau weinig "Dacklí±ºíµ®"
>> (Hausspatz, buen jemme Nester inn't Reit-Dack)
>
>Ik segg "Lí±ºí»¢.  In annere Dialekten: "Lí±ºí¹®k", "Dacklí±ºí»¢, "Huuslí±ºí»¢,
>"Dackfink", "Sparl", "Sparling" (vergl. dí²³í´³ch _Sperling_, ingelsch
>_sparrow_), in Oostfreesland _Lí²²í¾´je_.  Woneem kí±¶í½´ dat vun af?  Un
>nedderlandsch _mus_ (afrikaans _mossie_) fíº í°¢Lí±ºí»¢?  Kunn dat
>Orginaalwoord *_lí±£í¼©n_ west sien, mit 't germaansche Diminutiv _-ke_ un
>dat slaawsche Diminutiv _-ink_ (< polaabsch *_-inke_ < _-inka_, as in
>oostersch _Vadder_ > _Vaddink_)?
>
>> un "Miedelreinen" (Ameise,
>> engl: "ant")
>
>Ik segg "Mier" (pl. "Mieren"), in annere Dialekten "Eemk",
>"Mieg(el)eem(k)", "Mieg(el)reem", "Sprockeemk", "Sprockimm", "Pissmier",
>un in Oostfreesland "Miegaamke", nedderlandsch _mier_.  Dat hett sachs
>wat mit "miegen" to doon.   (Vergl. nedderlandsch _mictie_,
>kastiliaansch _mear_, _meados_, portugeessch _mija_, _mijo_, latiensch
>_mictorius_, _mictualis_, _mingo_, greeksch _micheí°¾í¹ >
>Gríº’íµ®s,
>Reinhard/Ron
>
No mÃ³l moin Fiete, moin Reinhard !
In 't OostfrÃ¤island kÃ¤en' wi ok "botterfÃ¶Ã¶ghel" un
"sÃ¶mmerfÃ¶Ã¶ghel" man
mÃ¤ist hÃ¤iten dÃ¤i fan "flÃ¼Ã¼nerk" of "flÃ¼Ã¼nerke" (dat ~ke is 'n
diminutiv).
DÃ¤i grÃ´d fÃ¶Ã¶ghels bÃ¼nt "heksters"(mit 'n lÃ¢ng ~e) of amtmet
"eksters (ok
mit lÃ¢ng ~e) un dÃ¤i lÃ¼tjen bÃ¼nt "lÃ¼Ã¼ntjes" (dat ~tje is 'n
diminutiv-
tÃ¤iken). Un dat lÃ¼tje krupgaudje bÃ¼nt "mighÃ³mels" of "mighÃ³mkes".
Amtmet
word d'r ok fan "mighhÃ¤imkes" an sÃ¤eght.

grÃ¶ytnis fan
Holger

Once again, hello Fiete, hello Ron !
In Eastern Friesland we also know "botterfÃ¶Ã¶ghel" and
"sÃ¶mmerfÃ¶Ã¶ghel" but
mostly butterflies are named "flÃ¼Ã¼nerk" or "flÃ¼Ã¼nerke" (~ke is a
diminutive). The magpie is a "he:kster" (first ~e is long) or
sometimes "e:kster" (also with long ~e). The little sparrows are
called "lÃ¼Ã¼ntje" (sg.) "lÃ¼Ã¼ntjes" (pl.) (~tje is a diminutive-mark
!)
Ants are "mi:ghÃ³mels" or "mi:ghÃ³mkes". Sometimes they are
called "mi:ghhÃ¤imkes" too. (the ~i is a long one)[normally I write
those
long vowels that carry no other diacritics with a stroke above the
letter.
This doesn't work in e-mails if the receiver doesn't use the same font.
For this reason here I mark them like e:, i: etc.]

GreetingÂ´s from
Holger

----------

From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.10 (04) [E]

>From: "W!M" <wkv at home.nl>
>Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.05.10 (03) [E]
>
>Hi!
>In my dialec here in salland we don't say be, bessen like in dutch
>normaly..
>We say [ beezn]. with a zed. Eerebeezn, rooie beezn, etc.( straw berries
>red berries etc) we don't use the singular I think for berries. Can't
>remember.
>
>So that would connect it with an end of word z or R maybe? I have no
>idea.
>
>(Wim verdoold
>wkv at home.nl)
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Etymology
>
>Wim,
>
>You may have hit on something interesting here.  There is this ancient
>Germanic -z ~ -r thing going on (the rune named "Elhaz" or "Algiz" --
>meaning 'elk' -- being supposed to represent a sound "between z and r"),
>and my hunch is that 'berry' falls into this category.
>
>So, between you and me we have "discovered" that in Low Saxon alone
>there is this -z ~ -r variation in the word for 'berry': (*/beeze/ >)
>/beez/ (-> pl. /beez+n/ ['be:zn]) versus (*/beere/) > /beer/ (-> pl.
>/beer+n/ [be:3n]).  I assume that the Dutch version started off with
>/-z@/, then dropped the schwa (> /-z/) and finally phonemically devoiced
>it to /-s/.
>
>Here is another example in Low Saxon (Low German), the verb 'to freeze':
>some dialects have /freiz-/ and other dialects have /freir-/.
>
>Low Saxon (Low German):
>(first phonemic, then in German style spelling)
>to freeze:      freiz-n ~ freir-n (fresen ~ freren/freen)
>I freeze:       ik freiz(-e) ~ freir(-e) (ik frees' ~ freer)
>thou freezest:  duu frí²ªí½³t (du frí²í´©
>he freezes:     hei frí²ªí½´ (he frí²í´©
>we freeze:      wii freir-t ~ freir-n (wi freert ~ freren/freern)
>I froze:        ik frour (ik froor)
>we froze:       wii frour-n (wi froren ~ froorn)
>frozen:         frour-n ~ fraar-en (froren/froorn ~ fraren/fraarn)
>frost:          frost
>
>Dutch:    German:       English:        Low Saxon:
>vriezen   frieren       freeze          frezen ~ freern
>vries     friere        freeze          freez(e) ~ freer(e)
>vriest    frierst       freeze(st)      frí²í´ >vriest    friert
freezes         frí²í´ >vriezen   frieren       freeze          freert
~ freern
>vroor     fror          froze           froor
>vroren    froren        froze           froorn
>gevroren  gefroren      frozen          froorn ~ fraarn
>vorst     Frost         frost           Frost
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hello Wim, hello Ron !

Again my addition from Eastern Friesland:
first the brown/bear/berry-group in Eastern Friesland sounds
bru:n, boer, bÃ¤j (the ~n in bru:n is nearly inaudible).
then the LS "frezen"-forms:
"frÃ¤isen" (sounds: frÃ¤izen)
ik frÃ¤ies, du: frÃ¼st, hÃ¤i/sÃ¤i/'t frÃ¼st; sÃ¤i frÃ¤isent (frÃ¤isen /
frÃ¤ist)
ik fro:er, du: fro:erst, hÃ¤i/sÃ¤i/'t fro:er; sÃ¤i fro:rent (fro:ren /
fro:rt)
~ heb/het/hebbent fro:ren
(E)frost = frÃ¶st (sg.), frÃ¶sten (pl.) (sounds like "frÃ¶ssn")

Regards
Holger

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