LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.05.15 (05) [E]

Wed May 15 23:24:43 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 15.MAY.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: "LL-L "Language caontacts" 2002.05.15 (02) [E]

>From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
>Subject: LL-L "Language contacts" 2002.05.13 (07) {E]
>
>Dear Lowlanders/ leeve Leeglanner,
>
>Ron wrote:
>
>...There is also the English word _keel_ [ki:l] (as in 'lowest
>longitudinal
>timber of a boat or ship').  The Oxford and Partridge say it started as
>Middle English _kele_ and is a Nordic loan; cf. Old Norse _kjí¹³í²Ÿ (hence
>/kjí¹²í¿ + masculine /_r/).  I find this just a tad hard to swallow.
>Again, I would expect this to come out shifted to *_kile_ (/ii/ > /ai/)
>in English.  Low Saxon has _Kiel_ [ki:l], which was borrowed into German
>as _Kiel_ [ki:l].  Dutch also has _kiel_ [ki:l].  In all of these
>languages, the word specifically denotes this part of a boat or ship,
>except in Low Saxon where it also denotes 'wedge' ("wedge" > "keel"?).
...
>I made some thoughts about
>
>1. *keel*:
>Just a few days ago I got a mail from platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE . I had
>asked
>him to explain some East-Frisian words  that I couldn't understand. One
>of
>them was *pä¥®*, which he translated to (upper German) *Fí±²í¼¨alter,
>*pencil"
>in English.
>I took a look into my French dictionary and found out: *penne* (french)
>=
>engl. *feather* and  *cale* (french) = engl. *wedge* = low sax. *Kiel*,
>upper G. *Keil". *pencil* seems to be same as *Federkiel*; and here we
>get
>the *-kiel* in upper German.
>In Low Saxon there is another word, similar: *Sí±²í¼ª. It describes a
>mechanism which has been used until our times to secure those big doors
>of
>the sheds near the coast against storm. It is formed like a big *wedge*,
>and
>I read a similar word in Danish (maybe *sjí¹²í¼ª, but I can't remember).
>
>2. *turn*:
>There should be very ancient common roots with the in German used
>*Tíº í¾ª: my
>French Dictionary translates *to turn* with *tourne*, and that's not far
>from upper German  *Turnier*, (earlier *Tournier*), *Tour* and more.
>Engl.
>*return* is used in low and  upper German in nearly the same meaning as
>*Retoure* or adj. *retour*.
>
>Regards
>
>Fiete.
>
>----------
>
>From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
>Subject: to complete it: LL-L "Lanuage contacts" 2002.05.13 (07)
>
>Ron,
>
>just to complete my last message:
>
>upper German (low Saxon too? I don't know1) *Pinsel* seems me the same
>as
>(engl.) *pencil*.
>
>Regards
>
>Fiete
>
>----------
>
>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language contacts
>
>Fiete,
>
>_Penn_ [pE.n] for 'pen' is used also in some non-East-Frisian dialects
>of Low Saxon (Low German), and there are also Dutch and English _pen_,
>originally a feather for writing.  It comes from Latin _penna_ and must
>be a very old loanword.  A common Low Saxon derivation is the word
>_Pennlicker_ ['pE.nlIk3] ("pen licker"), a negative word for a literate
>person, or for "writer" or "bureaucrat."  An alternative word for "pen,"
>especially the old-fashioned metal type, is _Poos'_ [po:Uz] ~ _Pose_
>['po.Uze], and the holder is called _Posensteel_ ['po.Uzn=stE.Il].
>Eastern-Friesland-specific are the derivations _Penntje_ (diminutive)
>'pen' and _penntjen_ 'to write'.
>
>Homophone and homograph _Penn_ means 'penny', 'Pfennig'.
>
>> In Low Saxon there is another word, similar: *Sí±²í¼ª.
>
>It corresponds to English "sill" ("window sill" or "door sill").  I know
>Low Saxon _Sí±²í¼Ÿ [zY.l] ~ _Sull_ [zu.l] to mostly denote a (door)
>threshold (German _Tí²‹í³£hwelle_), sometimes a window sill (German
>_Sims_).  In connection with doors, I am not quite sure what the
>difference is between a _Sí±²í¼Ÿ (cf. German _Schwelle_) and a _Drempel_
>['drE.mpl=] (cf. Dutch _drempel_).  Weren't both of them originally
>planks at the bottom of a doorway?
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hello Fiete, hello Ron !

In Eastern Friesland we also use "kÃ®l" to denote a field or piece of
land
in triangle-shape.
The penny is a "pennenk" here.
And for the door sill we use the word "drÃ¼ppel" (German: Schwelle,
TÃ¼rschwelle).

Kind regards
Holger

----------

From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject:  LL-L "Language contacts" 2002.05.14 (06) [E]

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
>Subject: Language contacts
>
>Lowlanders,
>
>I wrote in response to Sandy Fleming's mention of Scots _clifty_ as a
>possible Low Saxon (Low German) or Dutch loan:
>
>> > clifty    - "skillful"
>>
>> Low Saxon _kluftig_ ~ _klí±›í´©g_ ['klUftIC] ~ ['klYftIc] 'clever',
>> 'sharp', 'quick on the uptake'
>>    (from _Kluft_ 'cleave', 'split' (from a sharp instrument?)?)
>> (= Dutch _kluchtig_ 'funny', 'droll' < _klucht_ 'farce'?)
>
>< Middle Dutch _cluchtich_ 'capable' (> 'quick-witted'?)
>
>If this (as also Early Modern English _clifty_) is indeed a Lowlandic
>loanword in Scots, it would be only fair to assume that it is derived
>from Middle Low Saxon _kluftich_ on account of the /f/.
>
>Notes:
>
>(1)
>Dutch often has (/x/) _ch_ where Low Saxon has (/f/) _f_ (and these tend
>to be derived from the voiced counterparts /g/ and /v/ respectively).
>However, it is not clear-cut as all that.  Within Low Saxon itself there
>is dialectal variation (pretty much on a west-to-east continuum) between
>/x/ and /f/, as in _Lucht_ [lUxt] ~ _Luft_ [lUft] 'air' (Dutch _lucht_;
>cf. W. Frisian _lucht_ 'air', Scots _laft_ ~ _loft_, English "loft,"
>"lofty" and "aloft"), _Gracht_ [xraxt] ~ [graxt] ~ _Graft_ [draft]
>(Dutch _gracht_ '(excavated) canal' < /graav-/ 'to dig'; cf. W. Frisian
>_grê¦´_ 'canal', English "grave"), and _Kracht_ [kraxt] ~ _Kraft_
>[kraft] 'power', 'strength' (Dutch _kracht_; cf. W. Frisian _krê¦´_,
>English "craft").  This alternation thus exists on a larger scale
>between Low Saxon, Dutch, Frisian, English and Scots, considering also
>Low Saxon and Dutch /lax-/ _lachen_ 'to laugh', W. Frisian _laitsje_ (<
>*_lagke_?) 'id.', Scots _lauch_ [lQx] ~ _lach_ [lax] 'id.', _lauchter_
>['lQxt at r] ~ _lachter_ ['laxt at r] 'laughter', and English "to laugh"
>[lQ:f] ~ [la(:)f] ~ [læ¨º)f] and "laughter" ['lQ:ft@(r)] ~
>['la(:)ft@(r)] ~ ['læ¨º)ft@(r)].  Cf. Old English _loft_ (<Norse) 'loft'
>vs. _lyft_ 'air', _græ¦Ÿ, _cræ¦´_, _hlæ¨¨an- ~ _hliehhan_, and Old Saxon
>_lucht_ ~ _luft_, _graf(t)_, _craft_, _hlahhian_ respectively.  Also
>note Scots and English "shift" versus Low Saxon _Schicht_.
>
>(2)
>What I usually write as the Low Saxon adjectival/adverbial suffix
>_-(l)ig_ is pronounced [(l)Ix] ~ [(l)IC] pretty much in a west-to-east
>continuum.  However, please make a mental note of the fact that in some
>dialects it is _-(l)i_ [(l)lI] ~ [(l)i], I think mostly in the extreme
>north (Schleswig-Holstein, thus close to Danish, which spells _-(l)ig_
>but pronounces [(l)i]).  (These Low Saxon dialects have undergone the
>same process that changed Old English _-(l)ice_ to Modern English
>_-(l)y_ and Modern Scots _-(l)y_ ~ _-(l)ie_, unless it can be shown that
>Southern Jutish or Danish contacts have caused this shift.)  This is
>only to let you know that _kluftig_ ~ _klí±›í´©g_ can also be written and
>pronounced _klufti_ ~ _klí±›í´©_.
>
>Regards,
>Reinhard/Ron

Hello Ron, hello Lowlanders !

In Eastern Friesland Low Saxon we have many words with a ~ch where in
other
dialekts You find the ~f. For example: lÃ¼cht - Luft (air), kracht -
Kraft
(power, strength) and many more.
The ~lig / ~ig adjectival/adverbial suffix in Eastern Friesland LS
occurs
sometimes as ~lich or ~ligh but mostly it is ~lergh / ~ergh. For
example:
bu:stergh we:er (bad weather).
To laugh as mentioned by Ron is "la:gen" in EFLS. (present tense: ik
la:gh,
du: la:ghst, hÃ¤i/sÃ¤i/'t la:ght; sÃ¤i la:gent; past tense: ik lÃ¢gh,
du:
lÃ¢ghst, hÃ¤i lÃ¢gh; sÃ¤i la:gent. [pl. sometimes also: la:gen or
lÃ¢ght].

Kind regards
Holger

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