LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.11.14 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 14.NOV.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.11.13 (02) [E]

John, daar kann ik di blot tostoemmen !

I suppose you don't really understand written Low
Saxon, I don't blame you, the opportunities to learn
my native tongue these days are just too small. So I
continue in English. I have made similar observations
here in the Netherlands with monoglot English
speakers, I have colleagues from the UK or North
America, though they are living in the Netherlands
already for 3-4 years they don't speak a word of
Dutch. In a way it is quite conveniend because we
Dutch speakers can talk about them in their presence
and they don't know that we do. Fortunately the
national language in the Netherlands is - so far -
Dutch and Dutch only, they cannot demand anything but
the Dutch people are too good in languages and the
monoglot English speakers get away with it. Because
English is so strong I even prefer at times to speak
German instead of English though Germans had and still
have a similar attitude to my Low Saxon mother tongue
as the English have towards e.g. Gaelic. I have heard
the myth about Irish or Welsh speakers speaking
Englkish to each other as long as there is no English
person around as well, fact is, when we walked through
Beddgelert in Snowdonia, Wales, we found that all the
children spoke Welsh to each other while playing
football, if the children do it there, they do it
everywhere.

Once in Barcelona I stood in a queue at the domestic
railway ticket office, in front of me an American
woman, the ticket officer spoke Catalan and Spanish
and understood a bit of English but could not speak
it, once the American woman noticed that she started
to shout at him very loud as if he was deaf and turned
around, spotted me as a potential English speaker and
asked me 'how can somebody work at a ticket office
without speaking English ?'. I just ignored her and in
the meanwhile it was my turn at the neighbouring
window and I spoke Spanish to the office-woman,
feeling more embarrassed about the fact that I had to
force them to speak Castillan to me instead of
Catalan.

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From: Gary Taylor gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com
Subject: Language Varieties

Hi all

Candon asked me

"Interesting Gary.  Why did you adopt this
pronunciation?  In the U.S.
the alternate pronunciation is clearly intended to
sound educated.

Have you adopted other Americanisms?"

Can't say why I 'adopted' the American pronunciation.
It certainly wasn't a concious decision, I've always
said it that way, before realising that it was an
Americanism. It might have been that I first read it
before I heard it, and thus said it the American way,
or it could have been that I heard it in an American
film and presumed that was also the British way to say
it. Interestingly, I do 'Londonise' it by glottaling
the final 't'.

I probably use lots of Americanisms without being
aware that they are Americanisms. One that I know of
is my pronunciation of 'schedule' with American 'sk-'
as opposed to British 'sh-'. I think this is a
spelling influence, as I've equated the word with
'school' also with 'sk-'.

Another one which I've changed during my life is the
'Uranus' pronunciation. We used to laugh at school
when learning the planets about 'Yer anus' but the
'yoo ranus' pronunciation became popular and that's
what I say now. Shame really, I'm all for a bit of
British smutty postcard humour. I think this was an
American pronunciation influence.

It's strange how we grade what we hear. For example
'advertisement' with the stress on the 'ad' (secondary
on 'tise') instead of British stress on 'vert' somehow
irritates me when I hear it from fellow Brits,
although, as said, I do use Americanisms myself.

I also always say 'contr-O-versy' and not
'c-O-ntroversy'. I'm not sure which is British and
which is American.

The American influence is quite strong on England
English, and especially amongst the youth in the big
towns. I'm 31 and come from London, so I like to think
of myself as still fitting into this category,
although I've probably become decidedly set in my way
of speaking.

I think it's probably American films more than
anything which have caused this spread across the
Pond.

But then you say 'tom-ate-o' and I say 'tom-ah-to',
let's call the whole thing off!

Gary Taylor

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Lowlanders,

Right after I moved from Australia to the US (first Southern California,
then the Pacific Northwest), I was faced with a few linguistic dilemmas, the
most important ones being (1) should I (having been "raised" with British
English, with long-time exposure to Australian and passive American)
consciously adopt American English, and (2) if not, would I have to
compromise?  The answers were (1) "no" and (2) "yes."

(1) Trying to adopt US English seemed "forced" to me, also because I felt
that I would then have to try and go all the way, lexically, idiomatically
and phonologically -- and that seemed like a lot of trouble, considering
also that I did and still do intend to eventually return to Oz.
Furthermore, I soon found out that with my "weird accent" I was a lot more
interesting to a lot more people than without it, am even flirted with far
more often than I would normally be ... and that's always a bit of an ego
boost.  (I sometimes put on an American accent in brief exchanges, such as
when I want to remain anonymous or for some reason don't want to attract
attention.)

(2) In most instances, the compromise issue solves itself over time.  I
adopt American idiomatic expressions because I hear them all the time and at
least subconsciously know (from experience) that the British or Australian
equivalents, and also equivalents of certain words, would not be
misunderstood or would not be understood at all.   People with whom I am
close enough to get their honest input, told me that I used tags ("...,
isn't it?" etc.), "I wonder if ..." and rising intonation excessively;
especially where outside North America they "soften" statements they come
across as "wishy-washy" to Americans, as though I am pretending not to be
able to make up my mind.  So, I had to change that for the sake of both
clarity and social acceptibility.  Lexical issues also solve themselves,
because many times you are simply not understood if you use lesser heard
non-American terms, such as "(electric) torch" for "flashlight", "skirting
bord" for "baseboard", or "powerpoint" for "(electrical) outlet".  I waver,
i.e., use words interchangeably, wherever a non-American word *is* easily
understood in the US, such as "tap" and "faucet" (because Americans say "tap
water," not *"faucet water").  I did have to change my pronunciation of
certain words, such as those Gary mentioned.  Pronunciations such
"con-trO-versy" (instead of "cOn-tro-versy") are perceived as just to outlan
dish and are not always understood, so I have switched to the more easily
understood mode.  I stick with my old pronunciation wherever there is no
danger of being misunderstood, espcially where there is variation within US
English itself.  For instance, I would never say "Ad-ver-tize-ment" or
"ad-ver-tIze-ment" but am sticking with "ad-vEr-tiz-ment."  Over time, my
pronunciation of "aw" and "or" has changed from [o:] (e.g., "raw" [ro:],
"call" [k_ho:L]) to [O:], a compromise, because [o:] was poorly understood,
but I stopped short of American [Q:] (e.g., "raw" [rQ:], "call" [k_hQ:L]),
and this developed "naturally."  One phonological feature I had to drop very
soon was schwa-deletion in unstressed syllables, because it was too
destorting and often also very funny to American ears.  When I said
"secretry", "voluntry" or "mandatry" (for "secretary", "voluntary" and
"mandatory," where Americans don't even have a schwa but a clear "a"),
people closer to me would often tease me by asking "What kind of tree?"  It
got even worse if stress allocation was different on top of it, as in
"ob-lI-g at -try" (= "Ob-li-ga-to-ry").  Once when I said that the flavor of
something was "strawbry" (= "strawberry"), one person actually thought I was
talking about an exotic type of brie cheese, perhaps packed in straw while
maturing ...  Needless to say, I now say all my "a"s and schwas.

One person (Northern Irish, but with a "posh" English accent) I am around a
lot is a rare example of someone totally unwilling to compromise, refusing
to adapt even the slightest bit to American language and culture after over
fourty years in the country and with husband, children and grandchildren all
American.  It has been a great puzzle to me, but recently things she has
been telling me shed some light on it, made it clear that in her mind she is
here only temporarily (even though on a permanent basis).  She does not
think that it is her fault if people do not understand her at times (because
they are "poorly educated and ought to watch public TV more"), or when
people feel uncomfortable when she commits socially unacceptable acts, such
as asking questions that in the US are considered too personal, or
physically "invading" people's personally spaces (e.g., talking to them ten
centimeters away from their faces).

It is interesting that these issues of where to draw the line occur only or
mostly when you deal with what we perceive as  a foreign "dialect," while in
the case of what we perceive as a foreign "language," we would certainly
make an attempt at learning to use it the best we can.  In my opinion, this
is an interesting issue we might want to ponder and discuss, since it
involves perceived classification and also the question if one can and
should learn and switch back and forth between two very similar language
varieties.

In other words, what I am driving at is the hypothesis that proximity plays
a role, that at one end of the spectrum we learn a totally foreign language
variety ("language") "from the bottom up," but we learn a very closely
related language variety ("dialect") in a different way, either only to
understand or, if necessary to learn to use it, just on the surface
(avoiding misunderstanding, including "false friends").

I believe that the perception of close proximity can interfere with (i.e.,
subconsciously sabotage) one's serious attempts at learning a foreign
language that is closely related to one that one already knows.  At least
this is what I experience in learning Dutch, Afrikaans and Scots (because I
know Lowlands Saxon [Low German] and English).  I understand most of them
without actually learning them, and this interferes with my self-discipline:
I want to start just below the surface, not at the bottom as I should.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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