LL-L "Language survival" 2002.10.31 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 31.OCT.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Marco Evenhuis <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language survival" 2002.10.30 (01) [E]

Thomas Byro wrote:

> I would suspect that the turning point for the Dutch spoken by the Jackson
> Whites came with WW II.  At least, this seems to have marked the turning
> point for many other linguistic islands in the USA.  I used to own a house
> on a mountaintop in the Catskills and several of my neighbors who were
born
> just before or after WW II told me that Dutch was spoken in their homes as
a
> daily language when they were growing up.  German too.  The area supported
a
> local German newspaper that lasted until the 1960's.

Thanks again for the information, Tom!
Details like this (Dutch being spoken as a
home language in the Catskills untill WWII)
are very important for learning more about
language survival.
Most popular as well as scientific linguistic
literature about the Dutch language abroad
state that Dutch as spoken by the early settlers
in NJ and NY died out around 1900 with a
few possible last second language speakers that
died in the 1930s.
That's why all this information about the
Jackson Whites, Dutch being spoken in the
Catskills untill at least 1945 and Robert Bowman's
grandmother who spoke Dutch and died around
1953 is so interesting.

One should in this respect make a strict distinction
between the Dutch spoken by decendants of the
earliest settlers (1620-1700) and the Dutch spoken
by more recent immigrants (from 1840 and on).
The Dutch spoken by the earlier settlers developed
almost completely independent from the Standard
Dutch language (apart from Dutch ministers that
were schooled in Holland and sent out to Dutch
Reformed Churches in NJ/NY). In a way, this
situation can be compared with the way Afrikaans
developed from the Dutch spoken by 17th century
settlers. The Dutch culture in NY and NJ was
apparently strong enough to sustain for more then
300 years after the English took over the Dutch
colony of New Netherland.
The Dutch of more recent immigrants didn't have
time to develop; like most immigrants languages
Dutch died out amongst the decendants of these
more recent immigrants in about three generations.

Among the latter, one can hardly suspect to find
some 'forgotten' last speakers, because the language
has no or little cultural and historical value to the
speakers.
In the case of the earlier colonists, the language for
a long time stood for their culture and background.
Linguistst once believed that the Dutch/Zeelandic
creole language of the US Virgin Islands had died
out around the 1940s. But the last first language
speaker only died in the 1990s and there are a few
quite competent second language speakers left even
today. The reason that the language survived on an
island where English and English based creole have
been the majority languages for about 200 years now,
is that people took their culture seriously. English
speaking islanders still talk very positively and with
great melancholy about the 'old creole' (_ow creol_).

I wouldn't be surprised if a few second language
speakers of Jersey Dutch turn up in the end. Apart
from that rather romantic look on things, it is also
very important linguistically to learn more about the
conditions under which languages are able to sur-
vive longer then anyone would expect.
So Tom and others, every single detail about this
subject would be very much appreciated.

Thanks!

Marco

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language survival

Marco, Lowlanders,

Dutch as an immigrant language is still used in the very north here in
Washington State (the northwesternmost of the USA), at the border with
British Columbia, also north of the border.  The center is Lyndon on the US
side, a bit northeast of Bellingham, stretching all the way up to the
Canadian border.  I have heard it spoken myself by locals in the streets and
shops of the town.  It is supposed to be also spoken in the surrounding
farming country (which is also a center for horseback riding enthusiasts).
I have been told that Lowlands Saxon (of the Eastern Netherlands) and
Westerlauwer Frisian are spoken there as well.  Judging by the names of
farms and companies, the presence of people of Frisian descent must be
pretty strong.  I would not be all that surprised to find out that Zeelandic
is spoken there as well.  I would love to find out more about it, but people
who are from that area have told me that it tends to be rather difficult for
outsiders to make social contacts there, anything beyond the
tulips-and-windmill tourist thing.  (They do serve good pannekoeken there
and in parts of British Columbia.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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