LL-L "Grammar" 2002.09.08 (03) [S]

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From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.09.05 (01) [S]

Sandy wrate:
>>
>> BTW - hou is eg: 'Thay _div_ lest a lang time' - whaur the verb grees
>> but isna  richt niest the pronoun - cuvered bi the rule?
>
>A dinna think A understand the question here. "Div" is a
>auxiliary an's richt efter the pronoun, is it no? An "lest"
>is a non-finite form sae it winna be infleckit at aa.

Ach - coorse it is! Dozent question. Lairn me ti write efter midnicht!
>
>What div ye think o whan the verb's afore the pronoun? This
>disna seem tae me tae coont as contack, wi hou altho ye hear:
>
>"Hiv ye ony money?"
>"Hou am A tae git tae Ternent the nicht?"
>
>Ye div hear this an aa:
>
>"Haes ye ony money?"

I hinna heard this ane.

>"Hou's A tae git tae Ternent the nicht?"

I hiv heard this, but no aften.
>
>This suggests tae me that "clessically" the -s isnae
>scomfished whan the verbs juist afore the pronoun, an
>something like "Hiv ye ony money?" could be taen as
>English or regional influence.

I dinna ken. If it's a conservative strynd, wad ye no expect it ti crop
up in Shetlandic or the North East? Mibbie no, o coorse, but juist for
the record, in Shetlandic, the -s forms is niver uised in this
poseetion. I wad aye say 'Hae you onie money' an 'Hoo dui I git tae...'
or 'Hoo wid I git tae.' 'Hoo im I ta git tae' wad be awfu deleeberate -
like, if thare wis some graet muckle obstacle i the wey. I wad only uise
'haes' wi the 'du' form - 'haes du', but that's different cause it's
singular an taks the singular verb. (I ken yer examples abuin is
singular tae, but 'I' disna forordinar tak the -s verb, whaurbyes 'du'
dis.)

I think it's mibbie mair likely that the -s endin haes crept in frae
habitual/historic present uiss, efter the verb first, an than flittit ti
afore the verb as weel. Coorse, like ye say, it's haurd ti gaither
evidence whit wi the wey sae monie Scots writers Anglicises thair verbs
oniewey.

In onie case, for expository Scots I think ye need a 'standard' - an
authority. Lorimer wad be as guid as onie, I wad jalouse.
>
>Aa this leaves me no shuir hou tae deal wi formal
>poetic diction, the like o this on ScotsteXt:
>
>Ken ye Meggie Bridie, O?
>The bonny Meggie Bridie, O?
>Whan she pat on her damask goun
>She leukit like a leddy O;
>But whan she teuk it aff again
>She wis but Meggie Bridie, O!
>
>Wad this be better written, "Kens ye Meggie Bridie..."?

I wadna hae thocht sae. 'Kens ye' disna soond naitural ti me, for
example, sae it maun belang ither airts - back ti my threip aboot a
expository standard.

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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