LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.08.06 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.AUG.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Anja Meyfarth <anja-meyfarth at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.05 (03) [E]

> From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2003.08.04 (02) [E]
>
> Moin, moin, Andrys,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
>> Subject: Resources
>>
>> Is the Moin Moin a single instance or does nedersassich have more such
>> repetitions?
>
> and Ron:
>
>> I can only think of _Jaja!_ and _Neenee!_, repititions of _ja_ 'yes' and
>> _nee_ 'no'.
>
> Could the *Moin Moin* be a derivation of (LS): "Moi'n Monnen", (E): "Good
> morning"?
> As far as I know it spread over to many Low-Saxon-areas (and also is used
in
> Upper German there)from the regions of North- and Eastern Frisia, just a
few
> 10 or 15 years ago.

No, not North Frisian! It's typicel East frisian, at least it has been. But
it isn't in use in North frisian dialects. I believe it spread because of
advertising. Some breweries (especially one from Flensburg) are using
clischees (is that correct? Couldn't find the word in my dictionaries) of
what a typical North German should be like. And Otto (comedian from East
Frisia, especially in the Seventies and Eighties) did a lot, too.

Ron wrote:

> My theory is that "_Morgen_ > _Moin_" is a folk etymology developed in
> regions to which the greeting _Moin!_ had spread but in which the
> adjective/adverb _moi_ (~ _mooi_) 'nice(ly)', 'pleasant(ly)', etc., is not
a
> part of the native lexicon.

Quite right, but most North Germans know that now. It's nice to use it when
tourists from Southern Germany are here. They are so irritated when at eigth
a'clock in the evening greeted with "Moin moin". We normally don't
explain...

> I am pretty sure that _Moin_ came from _('n) moien (Dag/Morgen/Avend)!_
> '([Have] a) pleasant (day/morging/evening)', and that the doubling is a
> northwestern (probably East Frisian or Emsland) feature.

Well, a friend of mine from Bremen was sure that "moin moin" was wrong,
correct would be only one "Moin", but I think it doesn't really matter. In
my opinion the double usage is a sign of a real good humour. when you're not
feeling so good you'll only say "moin".

Moin moin from Kiel (best weather as possible)!

Anja

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From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.05 (03) [E]

>>From  wim  verdoold     wkv at home.nl

Moin,

About  repetitions...

This  also  happens  in  scandinavian  dialects,  like  when  you  say
natt natt,  etc   or  hej  hej!    It's usually  in  a greeting,  couls
scandianavian  usuages  have  influenced  Neder-Saksich?

Wim.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Well, I personally feel Anja's theory (above) may be on the right track,
namely that repetition of greetings add an air of cheerfulness, especially
with monosyllabic greetings.  Just saying "Moin" may come across as less
than overjoyed to see someone.  This may also be the reason why, as Wim
mentioned above, monosyllabic greetings tend to be repeated in Scandinavian
(also _Daw, daw!_ or _Dau, dau!_ in Jutish = Standard Danish *_Dag, dag!_
'good day!').  I think this is done less frequently with disyllabic
greetings, though it may occasionally be done for "emphasis," such as Danish
_Farvel! Farvel!_ 'Farewell!', 'Bye-bye now!', just as you might say
"Bye-bye now! Bye-bye!"

And there we have it: English "Bye-bye" may be another case, or is it
derived from something like "(I'll see you again) by and by (= before
long)"?  I feel that "Bye" alone may sound "grumpy."

And then we have non-American English "Ta-ta!" as an "Bye-bye!" alternative.

Ta-ta, moin-moin and farvel!
Reinhard/Ron

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