LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.12.09 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Brian Holton <ctbah at polyu.edu.hk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.12.08 (05) [E]

well, I guess you could say Northumbria is Scotia Irredenta in some senses,
and given Geordie dislike of London, maybe secession would be a welcome
move.....

I think one of the biggest differences between the two tongues was that
Scots was for long an official language, whereas Northumbrian, though it has
its own literature (I think mainly oral or oral-derived: there is a
wonderful body of song and of verse monologues, for instance), didn't in the
early modern period have the legal, governmental, commercial vocabulary that
Scots developed.

I used to think, on Uilleam Og's other point, that a 'book' Scots would be a
good idea, but I'm tending now to be happier with the diversity. I have
beenin the position of overhearing Shetlanders or even Aberdonians, and
having little idea of what they were talking about, but I was younger then.
:)

yours aye

b

Brian Holton
Assistant Professor, CBS
The Hong Kong Polytechnic University

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From: Glenn Simpson <westwylam at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: "Language varieties" [E]

Dear Ron & all,

The debate over whether Northumbrian is a dialect of
Scots or English or separate language is an age-old
one. It is arguable that Scots is in fact a dialect of
Northumbrian not the other way round, as Scots &
Northumbrian both come from the old
Anglian/Northumbrian language. Both tongues are
similar enough to be dialects of the same language,
although accents differ. In its pure form, say 19th
century version, Northumbrian is a language. However
there is a continuum where Northumbrian goes from
language to dialect and peters out as an 'accent'. In
its contemporary form it is often a dialect, albeit a
very distinctive one.

To be honest, as some correspondents mention, its not
an issue really.

I doubt whether Northumbrian has been any more eroded
than Scots in its usage. Much of the Northumbrian
language is heavily influenced by terminology from
industrial sectors such as coal-mining (the so-called
pitmatic dialect), fishing and agriculture.

On the front page for Lowlands, Ron, - I will do one
when I've got time! Please send info.

One additional point, the Northumbrian Language
Society has been offered observer status on the
European Bureau of Lesser Used Languages.

Check out Northumberland County Council website for
further info and Northumbrian Language Society site.

Keep ahaad,

Glenn Simpson
Northumbrian Language Society
Prudhoe
North'd

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