LL-L "Orthography" 2003.02.22 (12) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 22.FEB.2003 (12) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 http://www.lowlands-l.net  * admin at lowlands-l.net * Encoding: Unicode UTF-8
 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm
 Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.02.22 (06) [D/E/L/LS/German/Russian]

Chris Pilkington wrote:
"Sorry Criostoir, but your contention that _judgment_
is not 'allowable' or 'conventional' is simply wrong.
This is not a personal assault on you, only on your
argument, because it is fundamentally flawed. Apart
from sweeping and often inaccurate generalisms you
have not produced a shred of evidence to support your
case, whereas there is plenty to support Ian's.
I would respectfully suggest that this list includes
many language learners, such as myself, and we need to
be as sure as we can that the information we receive
on spelling conventions and usage is accurate."

Welcome, Chris. That's quite a first post.

Firstly, as far as I am aware - and Ron may correct me on this - no-one
contributing to this list should have to censor their opinions for the
benefit of so-called language learners. Insinuating that I am disseminating
"inaccurate" misinformation to vulnerable language learners merely by
disagreeing with Ian strikes me as patronising and pompous. Professional
editors can be disagreed with - no-one has a monopoly on those wonderfully
subjective terms "right" and "wrong". I abhor the absolutist terms "right"
and "wrong" and never use them - I disagree with opinions, is all.
Discussions become heated arguments when "right" and "wrong" start being
thrown around and this is a discussion list, not an argument list.

Secondly, I thoroughly agree with you that I lack sufficient evidence to
support my contentions. That is a major flaw, I agree. However, I do not
have immediate access to every dictionary from 1945-2003 when I post, I have
precious little time in which to contribute and so in this case at least I
admit I have come up short on proof. If I had more resources I would provide
you with a veritable shredder bin full of evidence for your delectation
(although I doubt any of it would be to your taste as you seem to have
already decided that I am "fundamentally flawed" and "inaccurately general"
in my argument). As it happens I do not and so I playfully suggested that
Ian himself attempt to get "judgment" and his other so-called options
through Fleet Street's orthographical iron curtain.

I hope this clarifies the discussion for you, as you seem to have taken it
far more seriously than you perhaps should have.

Go raibh maith agat

Criostóir.

----------

From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.02.22 (06) [D/E/L/LS/German/Russian]

John Tait wrote:
"'Paedophile' may be _nearer_ the Greek, but it is already Latinised. If you
wanted to follow the Greek, it should be 'paidophile'."

Or perhaps even 'paidofile'. That was not me attempting to be facetiously
pedantic - Greek words in English have a notoriously anachronistic
(anakhronistik?) orthography, coming into the language as they did mostly in
the late 18th Century when English orthography was also still moderately in
flux.

Advance apologies to Chris Pilkington for not being sufficiently precise in
providing the exact page number, but there is a useful guide to
transliterating Greek words in English in the Encyclopaedia (ynsyklopaidia?)
Britannica (britannika) Macropedia (makropaidia).

Go raibh maith agat

Criostóir.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <admin at lowlands-l.net>
Subject: Orthography

Críostóir:

> Firstly, as far as I am aware - and Ron may correct me on this - no-one
contributing to
> this list should have to censor their opinions for the benefit of
so-called language
> learners.

This is true.  Postings can always be disagreed with, should never be
considered the be-all and end-all, and no author should ever be assumed to
hold absolute authority, certainly not in the absence of irrefutable
evidence.  No single subscriber should be held responsible for the education
of the language learners on the List -- and *all* of us are learners.
However, we as a group owe it to them to indicate if something is generally
accepted and considered indisputable or has so far not been resolved and is
subject to further discussion.  Above, albeit in the form of a response,
Críostóir admitted not having evidence within easy reach.

> I hope this clarifies the discussion for you, as you seem to have taken it
far more seriously
> than you perhaps should have.

Perhaps this strikes at the heart of the issue.  We all come with different
things that make us tick and get us going, and arguments may not always be
as serious or as important as they may sound (perhaps owing in part of the
shortcomings of the medium we are using).  Sometimes people simply enjoy
arguing for argument's sake, even heated arguments.   Sometimes it is simply
a good idea to agree to disagree without holding grudges, without forgetting
to "play nice," and, most importantly, without forgetting that at the end of
the day we are all on the same side -- and, folks, let's never forget that
none of us is infallible.

Keep up the good work and good cheer!
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================