LL-L "Names" 2003.02.23 (10) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 23.FEB.2003 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 http://www.lowlands-l.net  * admin at lowlands-l.net * Encoding: Unicode UTF-8
 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm
 Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.21 (09) [E]

> Críostóir wrote:
>
> >Germans seem to almost cling to their placename history in the East.

>> Gabriele Kahn responded:
>
> You must not forget that quite a few Germans are still alive today who
used
> to call the towns of Königsberg, Danzig and others their home before their
> whole world began to crash around them and they were forced into exile
> forever, leaving behind their dead, their homes, their very existences and
> all their childhood memories. To them, there is no such place as
> Kaliningrad; it will be Königsberg forever. Imagine - an extremely
> hypothetical assumption - that London was made part of France some fifty
> years ago, and all English people living there were forced into exile to,
> let's say, Scotland. You bet they wouldn't call it Londres to this day!
>
> I think this phenomenon will disappear with the last survivors of this
> generation. To younger Germans, Kaliningrad is just another town in
Russia,
> and Gdansk is where Lech Walesa led a famous workers' strike.

In Austria we also say <Pressburg> for "Bratislava" and <Leibach>
for "Ljubljana", and then again why shouldn`t we?
Noboday says /pari/ and /bukureSt(i)/ for "Paris" and "Bucharest", so why
not
say <Stettin>, <Danzig> and <Moskau>?

Dan

----------

From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.23 (06) [E/LS]

Críostóir wrote:
> Will these placenames necessarily fall out of use, though? Surely refugees
> would, as a point of honour or duty, pass on 'their' version to their
> children rather than legitimise their expulsion by using the new name?

Well, yes, the names will be passed down, but I think that the younger
generation - the grandchildren of those expelled - will eventually mostly
use the names offered to them in the news. Actually, using the old German
names might even have slightly right-wing connotations amoungst younger
people.

On the other hand, Danzig especially may stick around for quite a while
because most books by Guenter Grass, including the famous "Tin Drum", are
set in old Danzig, therefore making the place come alive to his many readers
as it was then. Personally, I have two quite different mental images of
"Danzig" and "Gdansk", even if I know they are one and the same city.

Gabriele Kahn

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================