LL-L "Language policies" 2003.01.17 (03) [E]

Fri Jan 17 16:14:54 UTC 2003

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From: ntl <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Fw: Scots language

seems to me and easy cope out / opt out for them!!! Instead of rectifying
their error -they take the whole page of!! Ejits if you're asking me!!!

Chris Ferguson
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org>
To: <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: Scots language

> Dear Crisdean,
>
> Thank you for your email.  Please rest assured that we fully appreciate
the
> points you raise as regards Scots. In view of this, we have decided to
> remove the pages on multilingual UK from the Language Assistant website.
In
> future, we will guide language assistants to external web pages that will
> give them information on the many languages and dialects that exist in the
> UK so that they can plan their lessons accordingly.
>
> regards,
>
> Susan Leather
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntl [mailto:shoogly at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 09 January 2003 22:13
> To: Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org
> Subject: Re: Scots language
>
> It seems in inappropriate and unacceptable for you to be saying you are
> "giving an up to date view of the U.K" - and not to mention Scots in your
> reference to Scotland. Scots is spoken to various degrees by many people
in
> Scotland - and has a significant influence on Scottish English ( not the
> same as Scots ). Scots has also a long and prestigious history - and in
not
> mentioning Scots as a language I feel in fact you are in fact reinforcing
> traditional stereotypes - by giving the impression that Scots is a dialect
> of English - which it how it will be perceived by people visiting
> Scotland -as this is the impression that has been given to them.
>
> Instead of giving the true impression of the multi ethic character of the
> U.K -you are actually reducing that impression by the omission of Scots.
> Also you mention that  "many other languages are not specifically
mentioned
> in the text" - by this I take it you refer to languages like Cantonese,
> Hindi etc. Whilst these are maybe not mentioned -the difference with these
> and Scots - is that Scots is an indigenous language of these isles that
has
> as along a history in the isles as does English - and deserves to be
> mentioned along side English Welsh and Gaelic ( I am a Gaelic speaker -so
I
> do not have a Scots bias ) - there is absolutely no argument for you
> omitting it!.
>
> I think it is gravely amiss of you not to update your site to be more
> accurate - you can hardly call yourself the "British Council" if you are
> giving this biased and inaccurate representation of the true picture.
>
> Yours
>
> Crisdean Mac Fhearghais
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org>
> To: <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:37 PM
> Subject: RE: Scots language
>
> > Dear Crisdean
> >
> > Thank you for your email of 22 December 2002 regarding the omission
> > of Scots from the materials on the Language Assistant web site. I'd like
> to
> > apologise for the delay in replying, which has been due to holidays over
> > Christmas and the New Year.
> >
> > The Language Assistant website aims to provide pedagogic support for
> > some 2,000 English language assistants who go abroad every year under a
> > programme administered by the British Council. These are usually either
> > undergraduates required to spend the third year of their language degree
> > course abroad or recent graduates in languages or other disciplines.
They
> > are placed in secondary schools in Austria, France, Germany, Italy,
Spain,
> > Switzerland and Latin America, with some also working at primary school
> > level, and spend an academic year teaching in a school. Their main role
is
> > to develop their students' confidence and competence in understanding
and
> > speaking English. The majority of them have very little formal or
informal
> > pedagogic experience and the Language Assistant website and discussion
> list
> > provides support, materials and ideas for them to use with their
students.
> >
> > The Essential UK pages focus on classroom materials to help the
> > assistants present an up-to-date view of the UK (rather than reinforcing
> > traditional stereotypes). The reading text for Multilingual UK is not
> > intended to give a full description of languages and language variety in
> the
> > UK, but to help assistants present contemporary UK as a multi-lingual
> > society, rather than a monolingual English speaking society. As well as
> > Scots, many other languages in the United Kingdom are not specifically
> > mentioned in the text. Our apologies if this inadvertently gave the
> > impression that we were deliberately excluding Scots (or any other
> language
> > used in the UK). This was not intended.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Susan Leather
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ntl [mailto:shoogly at ntlworld.com]
> > Sent: 22 December 2002 14:18
> > To: languageassistant at britishcouncil.org
> > Cc: mail at sldl.org.uk
> > Subject: Scots language
> >
> >
> > I am surprised that you as the British council, in mentioning the
> languages
> > spoken in Scotland in your schools site at
> >
http://www.britishcouncil.org/languageassistant/ess_uk_multilinguallav.html
> >
<http://www.britishcouncil.org/languageassistant/ess_uk_multilinguallav.html
> > >   - make absolutely NO reference to the Scots language.  Scots is a
> > distinctive language -separate from English ( NOT a dialect of it ) -
with
> a
> > long and noble history in literature and was before the Union of Crowns,
> the
> > language of the court and parliament.  It is still widely spoken -
having
> > more speakers than Scottish Gaelic ( this is not anti Gaelic - I am a
> Gaelic
> > speaker - I am just trying to clear up a major omission on your
part!! ).
> I
> > would like your explanation for this.
> >
> > Should you doubt the Identity and presence of Scots - I am happy to
refer
> > you to appropriate web sites where you may find out more ( such as the
> Scots
> > National Dictionary association )
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > Crisdean Mac Fhearghais

----------

From: ntl <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Subject: Fw: Scots language

This can only be an appropriate action if you are directing people to
accurate web sites. I would be grateful if you were to inform me of the
sites you are directing your language assistants to.

Yours

Crisdean Mac Fhearhgais
----- Original Message -----
From: <Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org>
To: <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: Scots language

> Dear Crisdean,
>
> Thank you for your email.  Please rest assured that we fully appreciate
the
> points you raise as regards Scots. In view of this, we have decided to
> remove the pages on multilingual UK from the Language Assistant website.
In
> future, we will guide language assistants to external web pages that will
> give them information on the many languages and dialects that exist in the
> UK so that they can plan their lessons accordingly.
>
> regards,
>
> Susan Leather
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ntl [mailto:shoogly at ntlworld.com]
> Sent: 09 January 2003 22:13
> To: Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org
> Subject: Re: Scots language
>
>
> It seems in inappropriate and unacceptable for you to be saying you are
> "giving an up to date view of the U.K" - and not to mention Scots in your
> reference to Scotland. Scots is spoken to various degrees by many people
in
> Scotland - and has a significant influence on Scottish English ( not the
> same as Scots ). Scots has also a long and prestigious history - and in
not
> mentioning Scots as a language I feel in fact you are in fact reinforcing
> traditional stereotypes - by giving the impression that Scots is a dialect
> of English - which it how it will be perceived by people visiting
> Scotland -as this is the impression that has been given to them.
>
> Instead of giving the true impression of the multi ethic character of the
> U.K -you are actually reducing that impression by the omission of Scots.
> Also you mention that  "many other languages are not specifically
mentioned
> in the text" - by this I take it you refer to languages like Cantonese,
> Hindi etc. Whilst these are maybe not mentioned -the difference with these
> and Scots - is that Scots is an indigenous language of these isles that
has
> as along a history in the isles as does English - and deserves to be
> mentioned along side English Welsh and Gaelic ( I am a Gaelic speaker -so
I
> do not have a Scots bias ) - there is absolutely no argument for you
> omitting it!.
>
> I think it is gravely amiss of you not to update your site to be more
> accurate - you can hardly call yourself the "British Council" if you are
> giving this biased and inaccurate representation of the true picture.
>
> Yours
>
>
> Crisdean Mac Fhearghais
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Sue.Leather at britishcouncil.org>
> To: <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:37 PM
> Subject: RE: Scots language
>
>
> > Dear Crisdean
> >
> > Thank you for your email of 22 December 2002 regarding the omission
> > of Scots from the materials on the Language Assistant web site. I'd like
> to
> > apologise for the delay in replying, which has been due to holidays over
> > Christmas and the New Year.
> >
> > The Language Assistant website aims to provide pedagogic support for
> > some 2,000 English language assistants who go abroad every year under a
> > programme administered by the British Council. These are usually either
> > undergraduates required to spend the third year of their language degree
> > course abroad or recent graduates in languages or other disciplines.
They
> > are placed in secondary schools in Austria, France, Germany, Italy,
Spain,
> > Switzerland and Latin America, with some also working at primary school
> > level, and spend an academic year teaching in a school. Their main role
is
> > to develop their students' confidence and competence in understanding
and
> > speaking English. The majority of them have very little formal or
informal
> > pedagogic experience and the Language Assistant website and discussion
> list
> > provides support, materials and ideas for them to use with their
students.
> >
> > The Essential UK pages focus on classroom materials to help the
> > assistants present an up-to-date view of the UK (rather than reinforcing
> > traditional stereotypes). The reading text for Multilingual UK is not
> > intended to give a full description of languages and language variety in
> the
> > UK, but to help assistants present contemporary UK as a multi-lingual
> > society, rather than a monolingual English speaking society. As well as
> > Scots, many other languages in the United Kingdom are not specifically
> > mentioned in the text. Our apologies if this inadvertently gave the
> > impression that we were deliberately excluding Scots (or any other
> language
> > used in the UK). This was not intended.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Susan Leather
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ntl [mailto:shoogly at ntlworld.com]
> > Sent: 22 December 2002 14:18
> > To: languageassistant at britishcouncil.org
> > Cc: mail at sldl.org.uk
> > Subject: Scots language
> >
> >
> > I am surprised that you as the British council, in mentioning the
> languages
> > spoken in Scotland in your schools site at
> >
>
http://www.britishcouncil.org/languageassistant/ess_uk_multilinguallav.html
> >
>
<http://www.britishcouncil.org/languageassistant/ess_uk_multilinguallav.html
> > >   - make absolutely NO reference to the Scots language.  Scots is a
> > distinctive language -separate from English ( NOT a dialect of it ) -
with
> a
> > long and noble history in literature and was before the Union of Crowns,
> the
> > language of the court and parliament.  It is still widely spoken -
having
> > more speakers than Scottish Gaelic ( this is not anti Gaelic - I am a
> Gaelic
> > speaker - I am just trying to clear up a major omission on your
part!! ).
> I
> > would like your explanation for this.
> >
> > Should you doubt the Identity and presence of Scots - I am happy to
refer
> > you to appropriate web sites where you may find out more ( such as the
> Scots
> > National Dictionary association )
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > Crisdean Mac Fhearghais

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