LL-L "Phonology" 2003.05.06 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.MAY.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Andy Howey" <andyandmae_howey at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.05.05 (02) [E]

Hello, All:

I have a co-worker who is a native of Beijing, and I asked him how it is
really pronounced, and he pronounced it "bay-JING", but he said that
that pronunciation is only since the Communists took power.  Prior to
that, it was pronounced "pay-KING".  He didn't say why the change in
pronunciation, though.

Andy Howey

-----Original Message-----
From: Lowlands Languages & Cultures
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Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:48
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Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2003.05.05 (02) [E]

From: lingoman at webtv.net
Subject: Phonology

Good news: on last night's ABC news, both the anchorperson and the
reporter pronounced Beijing with "j" and not "zh."

I first noticed the zh take root when the Western press switched from
using Wade-Giles (inconsistently, of course) to pinyin transliteration
(same inconsistency).  They seemed to think that this change forced them
to drop our well-established Peking, which it did not.  Why English
speakers seem to have quickly decided to pronounce a "j" as "zh" is a
mystery.  I think Ron's theory is probably right, and in the back of
many English speakers is a "rule" that states: If you don't know how to
pronounce a foreign word, pronounce a la francaise.  Of course, in
America many have a rule to pronounce in a Spanish way.  I regularly
hear place names in the Arab world with a "j" pronounced with a Spanish
jota.  And this is from English speaking reporters!

//snip//

Sean Roach

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Andy (above):

<quote>
I have a co-worker who is a native of Beijing, and I asked him how it is
really pronounced, and he pronounced it "bay-JING", but he said that
that pronunciation is only since the Communists took power.  Prior to
that, it was pronounced "pay-KING".  He didn't say why the change in
pronunciation, though.
</quote>

This is very peculiar information, to put it politely.  Are you
absolutely sure this person is from Beijing?  In the vast majority of
Mandarin dialects, including those of Beijing, the shift /g/ ([k]) >
/dz/ ([ts]) (and /k/ ([kh]) > /ts/ ([tsh]) before /i/ took place
centuries ago.  In Early Middle Mandarin, the name appears to have been
pronounced something like [pak-kIN], then [pa?-kjIN] and finally
[pEI-tsIN], phonemically /bei-jiN/ (/b/ is realized as [p], /p/
aspirated as [p_h]), meaning "Northern Capital".  In Southern Chinese
languages the old pronunciation is more or less intact, e.g., Cantonese
/bak-kIN/ (with an unreleased /k/), and there may be a few Southern
Mandarin dialects left that say something like [pa?-kjIN] /ba?-kiN/.

Irrespective of weird Taiwanese-originated stories, "The Communists" did
not change the name of the city.  The Republican Government (1912-1949)
changed it to "Beiping" ("Northern Peace") and took this name into exile
to Taiwan (spelling it "Peip'ing" for Westerners because they rejected
the Pinyin transliteration together with everything else instated on the
Mainland), while on the Mainland the old name (originating from the Ming
Dynasty [1368-1644]) was reinstated and spelled <Beijing> in the Pinyin
system (which is phonemically more sound than other Romanization
systems).

I have lived in Beijing and in Taiwan, and I know quite a bit about wild
fabrications flying around.  Believe me: no one from Beijing would say
"pay-KING".  The Western name "Peking" is based on an earlier Mandarin
pronunciation.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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