LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.10.31 (06) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 31.OCT.2003 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: sam claire <samclaire at mybluelight.com>
Subject: LL-L

Thanks much Ron, your dissertation was quite revealing and appreciated.  Sam
in Owings Mills

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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Holidays" 2003.10.31 (05) [E]

Dear Ron,

Being (still) new to the Lowlands dialogue, I hesitate to insert my twee
penninge worth of verbage to the mix, especially when the worthwhile
melancholy of the time of souls, saints and the departed comes upon us.

First, please thank Elsie Zinsser for her great and compassionate
scholarship and her reverence for human life.

The continuum of Halloween-All Saints-Day of the Dead, as already remarked
by some of your Lowlands associates, indeed long precedes current religious
philosophies.

This brings us as well to current and ancestral language, together with the
souls who spake them.

And that brings us to the "Drielandenpunt", the point of convergence of
Germany, Belgium and The Netherlands (Aachen-Gemmenich-Vaals-Viljen, plus
the area around Eupen). A region in political, cultural and linguistic
contention since the death of Charlemagne, the Drielandenpunt is rich in
heritage.

Long before the Franks and Saxons, the region became populated with
cromlechs (there's a word for Ron!), menhirs, grave avenues and sacrificial
stones. Mistletoe containing the souls of early inhabitants droops mistily
from the boughs of skeletal trees.

Whether souls, Saints, or Samhain, the region is worth driving and/or hiking
around to experience the variety of dialects of Plattduutsch. The accent and
even some vocabulary differ excitingly from one village to another (perfect
for a pub crawl).

Personally, I believe it is also the convergence of the usages of "graag" as
opposed to "gaarn". (Ik zul graag... Ik zul gaarn). Add to that the
checkered past as the home of "plunderaars en veedieven", and I had
difficulty distinguishing between Nederduits and Niersaessisch.

But forms of language are also life forms, equally organic with their
speakers. Let us preserve as many as we can.

Best wishes.

Arthur Jones

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Hi, Sam, Arthur and other Lowlanders!

Thanks for your responses.

Arthur, thanks for drawing our attention to the _Drielandenpunt_ ("The
Countries Point"), or _Drey-Landen-Punkt_ (<Dreelannenpunkt>) as it would be
called in North Saxon.  It is always within the spirit of the List to deal
with topics and areas that have relevance beyond national boundaries.

I wasn't sure just how to categorize your message, which straddles
"Holidays," "Folklore" and "Language varieties," but at least you did
provide a subject line (blink, blink).  For now I have categorized it as
"Language varieties,"  because I think this is the way it is bound to go.

I believe that the area you are talking about is mostly or entirely
Franconian, with little or no Saxon presence.   In fact, if I am not
mistaken it is mostly or entirely Limburgish, if we use this label in a
somewhat generous way.  (Even some communities on the German side have now
begun publicly referring to their indigenous language varieties as
_Limburgisch_ and thinking of their people and culture as belonging to a
greater Limburg.)  Unfortunately, these relatively few Low(lands) Franconian
varieties of Germany have been traditionally lumped together with the
Low(lands) Saxon ones under the catch-all label _Platt(deutsch)_ or -- more
"sophisticated" -- _Niederdeutsch_.

As you may know, we have several Limburgers and Limburgish language
activists on Lowlands-L, and we love them.  They may have a thing or two to
say about your posting.

You and others might enjoy some relevant information about _Öcher Platt_,
the dialect of Aix-de-Chapelle/Aachen, including audio files:

   http://www.oecher-platt.de/

Here some information about the language varieties of the Cleves Region:

   http://www.geocities.com/vienna/7776/

Yes!  The author of this last site dares to look across fences for
relatives.  Bravo!

[Mathieu, je zou hem van de nieuwe URL van je taalkaart moeten informeren.
Zijn link naar je site functioneert niet.]

Enjoy!

Reinhard/Ron

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