LL-L "Etymology" 2003.11.14 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 14.NOV.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2003.11.13 (06) [E]

Roger,

According to the 2002 census preliminary results for the south of Ireland,
40.1 percent of the population can speak Irish. For the 2001 census in the
north the corresponding figure is 10.4 percent. On an all-Ireland basis this
is 1,738,384 of 5,602,603 persons or 31.0 percent.

In the 1996 census for the south a quarter of those who reported
Irish-speaking ability stated that they spoke the language on a daily basis.
This includes persons who have Irish as their first and home language,
persons who use Irish as their preferred language, persons who are
functionally bilingual and use Irish as much as English (or more or less).
Over two-thirds of persons who claimed to know Irish either never spoke it
or spoke it so infrequently as to be effectively English monolingual.

Due to the extent of pervasive bilingualism in Ireland, monolingualism
understood as an inability to understand English perfectly is extremely rare
if not non-existent - mainly children under three and those aged over sixty
in Irish-speaking areas. In other words, all persons over three years of age
who know Irish will be just as fluent in English too. However, as the above
statistics state, Irish is the preferred language (whether for mother tongue
or elective reasons) of a maximum of about eight percent of the population,
particularly in designated Irish-speaking districts (Gaeltachtai) and, more
than ever, minorities in English-speaking districts (an Ghalltacht). This is
a maximal census figure and other sources place elective Irish monolinguals
at between two and five percent of the population of the south and an
unknown proportion in the north. (Personal experience would propose similar
figures for nationalist areas of the north - particularly Derry ! and west
Belfast).

Nevertheless, the first issue is one of preferred language. While there may
be very few Irish monolinguals in Ireland, there are very many who wish to
live their lives through as monolingual a milieu as possible. At present
this is not possible and immense pressure - social and societal - is placed
on persons to use English. An absence of legislation in Irish is a symptom
of this, as is the English monolingualism of parliament and commerce.
Although there is a network of - often state-discouraged - Irish-language
schools (Gaeilscoileanna), one Irish language newspaper (Lá), a highly
popular Irish language radio network (Raidio na Gaeltachta nationwide and
Raidio na Life in Dublin) and an Irish language television service which
broadcasts a third of its output - mainly in peak time - in Irish, one has
to try extremely hard to live an Irish-speaking life and more often than not
the difficulty is so ubiquitous that impossible monolingualism gives way to
practical bilingual! ism and then an increasing peer-driven English
monolingualism.

Furthermore, however, the second issue is one language of the legal status
of Irish and the rule of law in Ireland. Irish is, constitutionally, "as the
national language [...] the first official language" of the state (in the
case of the south at least). English is merely "recognised as the second
official language." The law, therefore, is clear: Irish should enjoy
precedence over English (rather than equality with) in official usage. Most
certainly, this means that laws should be enacted and published in Irish and
only then translated into English. This is the 'ground law' - the
constitution - we are referring to, remember. It is not some spurious
ministerial decree but the foundation document of the state's authority.
What should we make, then, of a perverse situation in which laws are not
only enacted and published in English but often never even translated into
Irish? Clearly, such discrimination against the first official language is
illegal and unconstitutional. E! ven more clearly, the fact that this part
of the central law of Ireland - the constitution - is being flounted on a
daily basis by the Government of Ireland raises in my opinion questions
about how seriously the Constitution is taken. One cannot pick and choose
which aspects of the Constitution should be adhered to, particularly by
Government.

Consequently, while true Irish monolinguals are increasingly rare, the issue
has shifted to one of preferred language. The fact is that Irish is, in
practice, not only not the first official language, it is actively
discriminated against by the very state that puports to protect it. This is
both unconstitutional, illegal and worrying insofar as it raises questions
about the attitude of the state to the rule of law. Every citizen of Ireland
has the right to use the first official language and have the state
interpreted to him or her through that language before any other. At
present, one would be forgiven for thinking that English is Ireland's only
language and that Irish is a pretty but ultimately uncared for and about
antique bauble. It has to stop.

Criostóir.

----------

From: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2003.11.13 (06) [E]


> I have a question about Ireland.
> Making abstraction from all considerations of cultural
preservation and
> cultural politics, is there a "democratic" need to have
legismation
> translated into Irish, is as far that there  eventually still
are speople /
> families / village populations, who do not understand English
and cannot
> inform themselves directly about the law, since they cannot
read English
> (but could read and understand the law if it were published
in Irish).?
>
> Thanks for your comments,
> Regards,
>
> Roger

Hello All,

Interesting question, Roger.

People are probably bi-lingual in Ireland, so why not everything in English?

Well, why not everything in Irish? Or why not everything bi-lingual?

I believe the problem is not so much the language chosen as the exclusion of
one of the languages. Why should one of the languages be excluded?

The reason for language exclusion is usually not linguistic but political.
It is a question of the power of some speakers over others. Is this a just
criterion for deciding language use?

Over to you all.

Regards,

Tom [Maguire]

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================