LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.04.30 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 30.APR.2004 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org or lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2004.04.30 (03) [E]

At 10:54 AM 04/30/04 -0700, you wrote:
>As a Scots speaker, I actually find it very hard to see any evidence of
>Scots influence in Appalachian speech or writings at all. It seems rather
to
>be full of features from the south west of England. So is general American
>speech, but Appalachian has more. It does make me wonder why linguists
>rarely seem to even mention Wessexian when discussing American speech. Are
>they just not aware of those dialects of England? I also wonder what
>American linguists mean by "Scots-Irish"? It seems to be a way of being
>vague more than anything else.

This question has badgered the List for many years now, hasn't it Sandy?

One radio documentary that I listened to recently suggested that the
majority of the "Scotch-Irish" (which is the correct spelling still used in
NA) actually settled in the Mid-Atlantic area around Philadelphia (clearly
a Southwest derived dialect), then, due to being treated like second class
citizens, they moved south into the relatively uninhabited Appalachians,
which at the time, if anything, had a dialect more similar to that of the
lowland areas of North and South Carolina of today, which in turn was
probably also much closer to the King's English than Scots.  The
documentary also mentioned that when they arrived in North America, they
were pretty much all Presbyterians, but once they got into the mountains,
the Presbyterian church couldn't supply ministers fast enough (having such
a high academic standard and all), so they fell prey to the Baptists, who
pretty much let anyone preach the Gospel (humour!), which would explain the
very high percentage of Baptists in the South.

Perhaps what we have here is really some sort of creole, with major
features of vocabulary and diction coming from both Scots and
Wessexian.  Clearly, the "r" is much softer, even non-rhotic in Appalachian
speech, though not nearly as much as New England-New York.  And to be
honest with you, it never sounded much like Scots to me at all, the way New
England sounds like Cockney or East Anglian.

Ed Alexander (whose ancestors on both sides were Scotch Irish).

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Ed (above):

> This question has badgered the List for many years now, hasn't it Sandy?

Indeed (though my name isn't Sandy).

On the basis of what I know about the varieties we are talking about, I have
to state that the "Scotsh-Irish" theory doesn't make a lot of sense, while
Sandy's hunch connecting Appalachian with English varieties of Southwestern
England makes a lot more sense to me.  I wouldn't be one bit surprised if
this "Scotch-Irish" derivation hypothesis simply started as an uneducated
guess among non-linguists who thought that Appalachian didn't fit into any
other American dialect group and wasn't like England English either, thus
must be from the "periphery," i.e., Scotland and Ireland.  (The stereotype
of the poor Appalachian mountain dweller may have added to this, given that
especially early Irish immigrants were mostly very poor and were exploited
and discriminated against.)

It seems to me that average Americans has no idea about the great diversity
of England's dialects, associate only southeastern and "posh" English
"accents" with England.  Rhotic dialects of Western England come as a real
surprise to them and tend to be assumed to be "Irish or something like
that."

Isn't it true that there was a lot of mining in the Appalachian mountains,
and that that attracted many immigrants from Wales and Cornwall?  (There are
telling names, such as Cornwall Bridge.)  I suppose that mining job
opportunities attracted people from other parts of Southwestern Britain as
well, such as from neighboring Devon, Somerset, Dorset, Wiltshire and
perhaps Berkshire and Hampshire.  This would make sense with regard to
Appalachian dialect genesis as well.

On a slightly different note, I am often surprised to discover or be
reminded how many phonological similarities there are between Lowlands Saxon
(Low German), especially the North Saxon dialects, and the dialects of
Sussex, Wessex, Kent and in part Essex, and (in extension?) dialects of
Australia and New Zealand (e.g., non-rhotic, /ar/ -> [a:], /a/ lowering
before /l/, /t/ and /d/ flapping, strong aspiration only initially,
widespread absence of aspiration non-initially ...).  Is it accidental that
this coincides with these being dialects of England's former Saxon-ruled
area?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================