LL-L "How do you say ...?" 2004.08.16 (07) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: john feather <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: How do you say?

While I was researching Berlinerisch I came across a website discussing the
precise meaning of "Ich bin ein Berliner". The general conclusion was that
without "ein" the phrase asserts that the speaker is a Berliner through and
through - "born and bred" as we might say in London. With "ein" it was held
to mean something else, though many of the contributors were unable to state
what this might be. Perhaps we might think of a long-term resident, or an
adopted son.

I don't want to discuss the German expression or why it was said or what
else it might have meant. My interest is in how the "born and bred" idea is
expressed in Lowland languages. In the movies and songs New Yorkers call
themselves "native New Yorkers". Sometimes, I suppose, there is a nickname
[orig. "an eke name"] which conveys the same idea. Any offers?

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: How do you say ...?

John (above):

> My interest is in how the "born and bred" idea is
> expressed in Lowland languages.

Here's my Lowlands Saxon (Low German, North Saxon dialect) bit:

_bourn un tagen_ (<boorn un tagen>)

_Tagen_ ['tQ:gN] is the past participial form of _te(g)en_ ['te:GN] ~ [te:n]
'to pull', 'to drag', also _up-tegen_ (<uptegen>) 'to pull up', 'to raise (a
child)' (past part. _up-tagen_ <uptagen>).

So, ...

(1) Ik bün in Hamborg bourn un tagen.
(2) Bourn un tagen bün ik in Hamborg. (implying that I live somewhere else
now)
(3) Ik bün 'n bourn(en) un tagenen Hamborger.

For obvious reasons I tend to avoid using the English equivalent of the
third version.

You can also say _bourn un up-wussen_ (<boorn un upwussen>).  _Up-wussen_
(lit. "up-grown") is the past participial form of _up-wassen_ (<upwassen>).
So this uses "to grow up" instead of "to be raised."

_Bourn un tagen_ is a real idiomatic expression like English "born and
raised."  I feel that _bourn un up-wussen_ is not.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: the sequence /our/ is pronounced as in South England English "lower"
or (in the Lower Elbe region) as in South England English "boor," depending
on the LS dialect, so _bourn_ is either [bo.U3`n] or [bu:3`n].

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